A family for the Thuringia Project -- Weltin Fleischmann

+8 votes
I've stumbled across this family a number of times. I'm apparently descended from this line, but it hasn't been proven yet.

There are merges pending on Weltin Fleischmann and his son, Cyriacus, but I don't feel well-versed enough in Germany genealogy to put these through, and I was hoping the German Roots folks, specifically the Thuringia Project, would like to take over.

The descendants of this family need a lot of work. There are duplicates as well as descendants appearing in the wrong generations, etc. I'm happy to do what I can to facilitate any merges, but I don't have much experience with German research.
WikiTree profile: Weltin Fleischmann
in Genealogy Help by Julie Ricketts G2G6 Pilot (420k points)

1 Answer

+2 votes
Best answer

I would question whether Cyriacus is the son of Weltin:

  • Weltin is said to have been born in the Herzogtum Sachsen-Eisenach and died there, but somehow he managed to father Cyriacus at the age of 16 (or 23) in Neuenburg, Neuenbürg, or Neuenberg, which would either be Vorderösterreich some 440 km southwest of his birth place, Württemberg some 250 km southwest, or a village in either Hessen or Nordrhein-Westfalen.
  • Veltin managed to become the father of Cyriacus 4 years after his death but at least in Sachsen-Eisenach.
  • Cyriacus had a daughter Maria Catharina, born and died in 1701 in Neuenberg, Baden, which does not exist - it would have to be Neuenburg, Vorderösterreich - but immigrated in 1717 with a daughter Maria Catharina, age 14, born in Neuenbürg, Baden, which does not exist - it would have to be Württemberg - while Cyriacus had a daughter Mary Catherine in 1735 in Culpepper, Virginia.

In the absence of any primary birth record for Cyriacus the geographic uncertainty in these profiles makes it more likely that this parent-child relationship represents a mix-up of different families, after all, Fleischmann is not a rare name in German speaking countries.

by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (549k points)
selected by Julie Ricketts
Thank you, Helmut!  This is why I was hesitant to proceed with any of the merges.

I am allegedly a direct descendant of Cyriacus -- 8th gr. grandfather -- but I tied into this line much further down, and I haven't had a chance to walk through and prove the relationships further than about 5 generations back.

I've marked it as a priority to work on. I may be calling on you. :-)

You may already be aware of this, but Weltin and Cyriacus are in a tree at Rootsweb with a plethora of spellings and a profusion of locations. This tree may be close to the origin of where the family started to get copied and split up all over the Internet. There is one advantage: it gives sources, mostly from publications in magazine Beyond Germanna in the late 80s.

Oh, and there's a One Place Study for Germanna.

There is one source in all these pedigrees worth looking at:

  • Ortssippenbuch Oberöwisheim 1648-1900 und Neuenbürg 1785-1900, Author: Karl Diefenbacher and Klaus Rössler, Publication: Zentralstelle für Personen- und Familiengeschichte, Frankfurt am Main, Germany 1995

I'd be really interested in the sources used for this publication. I'm still somewhat skeptical, mainly because, although Oberöwisheim and Neuenbürg are not that far from each other, in the 17th century Oberöwisheim belonged to the Hochstift Speyer and Neuenbürg belonged to Württemberg. Of interest is also that the timeframe in the book for Neuenbürg starts in 1785 when it is used as a source for births and marriages from 1701 through 1708.

Yes, that Beyond Germanna magazine may be more provenance than source. But there is a web page for it. http://www.germanna.com/

Helmut and all, Would your Oberöwisheim (plus my Unteröwisheim), which in earlier times, I've thought would be located in Baden, be the one for my tree's German Roots (Berg-1880)? sometimes finding the area's correct name is at the core of not finding further information, just as use of the umlaut has been.

Ortssippenbücher (OSB for short) are compiled directly from the records of the place they cover.  Ort = place in German.  Here is a good explanation https://www.familysearch.org/blog/en/ortssippenbcher-ortsfamilienbchervaluable-resources-german-genealogical-research/

I have personally used the Ortssippenbuch Oberöwisheim 1648-1900 und Neuenbürg 1785-1900 for my research of Germanna families from those places.  Veltin Fleischmann is found on page 454, "Maurer zu Klings im Hennenberger-Fischberger Amt b./Meiningen/Sachsen"

Margaret James Squires, "Anna Barbara Schoen," Beyond Germanna, 1, no. 3, (May 1989): 21, says his son Cyriacus Fleischmann was "of Klings."

Another source for information on this Fleischmann/Fleshman family is Gary J. Zimmerman and Johni Cerny, Before Germanna #3: The Ancestry of the Blankenbaker, Fleshman and Slucter Families,  (Bountiful, UT: American Genealogical Lending Library, 1990).'

I believe these are all available at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City.


Related questions

+4 votes
1 answer
116 views asked May 30 in Genealogy Help by K. Anonymous G2G6 Pilot (132k points)
+4 votes
1 answer
79 views asked Aug 17, 2018 in Genealogy Help by Norbert Gitzl G2G6 Mach 2 (23.5k points)
+5 votes
0 answers
+1 vote
2 answers
0 votes
1 answer

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright