Rosenthals in Australia

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Seeking information about the immigration of a number of Rosenthal to 19th-century Melbourne, Australia - specifically those of Aaron, David, Julius and Carl August. It's possible some or all are related to one another but I have no evidence.
WikiTree profile: Aaron Rosenthal
in Genealogy Help by Mark Rosenthal G2G Crew (440 points)
Hi, I was completing a Hansen search when your query came up. Although the spelling has changed with each generation, I am from the Hansen side of a Hansen Rosenthal marriage. I wondered do you have anything listed in your post that prompted my search result to appear.

thanks JJ

1 Answer

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The National Archives have a great store of information.

Here is the naturalisation certificate on Carl August: http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=793783  

 It says he is from Berlin, Prussia, is 27 on 1 August 1849 , was a carpenter and had been in Adelaide for 4 months.

They also have the naturalisation of Julius, but it is not online yet.

David's naturalisation is there: http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=1811335  

Nothing there on Aaron.

I shall keep looking.
by Susan Scarcella G2G6 Mach 7 (70.6k points)
Thank you so much for the help, Susan! If it's any help, there is evidence that Aaron married Bertha Lehman in Melbourne in March of 1867. The marriage may have been hosted in the home of the Feldheim family, a business partner. Other Rosenthals that pop up are Samuel, Isidore and David and Julius (as previously mentioned). He emigrated to England in 1870-71 with Bertha and (perhaps) one child - Adolph.
Yes, he did marry in 1867. Victorian BDMs give this info:

ROSENTHAL

Given namesAaron

EventMarriage

Father's name / Spouse's family nameLEHMAN

Mother's maiden name / Spouse's given nameBertha

Reg. year1867

Reg. no1044

Mark, just found this info on him. http://www.jimlow.com/home/genealogy/webcards/ps03/ps03_004.html

NameAaron Rosenthal , 1004, M

Birth1831-04-07, Lobsens, Prussia (Germany)

Death1909-10-01, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

OccupationJeweler; Agent for an Australian House

Mother...?... Von Wolf , 1300, F

Spouses

1Bertha Lehman, 1005, F

Birth1850-08-09, Tuchel or Berlin, Prussia (Germany)

Death1922-12-10, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

FatherLewis Lehman , 5682, M

Marriage1867-03-27, Victoria, Australia

ChildrenSali , 1044, M (1868-1883)

 Adolph , 1045, M (1870-1929)

 Samuel , 1006, M (1872-)

 Martin , 1002, M (1873-1958)

 Harry , 1007, M (1875-1960)

Notes for Aaron Rosenthal

Place of birth of Lobsens is now called Lobsenica and is now in Poland.

According to the Dictionary of Canadian Biography Online, he left Prussia at age 13 (about 1844) and travelled through India and Ceylon and was in Australia at the time of the gold rush in 1850.

Family moved from Germany to Australia in 1867 and there until 1870. They were in England in 1871. They came to Canada in 1874, were in Quebec province for about five years, then settled in Ottawa in 1879.

In 1870, the family lived at 192 Victoria-parade E.M in East Melbourne, Australia.
Listed in the Melbourne, Australia Directory for 1870 as follows:
Rosenthal, Aaron (of Feldheim, Jacobs, and Co.), 192 Victoria-parade, E.M.
Under “Feldheim,” the company is listed as tobacco merchants and general importers, 48 Queen St., with Aaron Rosenthal listed as one of the proprietors.
Aslo listed is:
Rosenthal, David, wholesale, jeweller and importer, 15 Little Collins-street west, p.r. Alma-street east, St. K.
Other Rosenthals listed are: Isidore, Jacob, Julius, Samuel.

Aaron not in 1865 or 1866 Melbourne Directory, but David is.

Listed in Citizen roll of Melbourne Nov 1867 to Oct 68 in Latrobe Ward, Grey Street, merchant. He is not listed in the 1866-67 directory.

In 1871, the family lived at 17 Belmont, Lee, Kent, England.

Searched at the LDS library and failed to find Rosenthal family:
- Emigrants from Hamburg to Austraila: books 1860 to 1866.

He established his Jewelry store in Ottawa in 1879, which was bought out by Birks in 1911 after his death.

Died in Ottawa but may have been buried in Montreal where funeral was held.
Cause of death: Uremia.

From The Canadian Jewish Times, vol. 12, no. 43 [8 Oct. 1909]:
“ROSENTHAL, Aaron, a resident of Ottawa for thirty years, died there last Fri., age 78. Born in Germany in 1831, he lived in India, Ceylon and Australia before settling in Canada about forty years ago. He began his business career in Montreal but after a few years he moved to Ottawa. He founded a jewellery business now known as A. Rosenthal & Sons. He is survived by his widow and four sons: Arthur, Samuel, Harry and Martin Rosenthal. The remains were brought to Montreal on Sun. morn. Burial was in the Shaar Hashomayim Cemetery, Rabbi Herman Abramowitz officiating. In his eulogy Rabbi Abramowitz said, in part "With his removal from our midst, there has been removed one of the old landmarks, as it were, in Canadian Jewry. He came to this country many years before most of us; he was one of those who did pioneer work in establishing Jewish communities in this land, he was known for his interest in religious and philanthropic causes, and the communities of Ottawa and Montreal particularly, were benefitted through his generosity. Through his integrity in the commercial world, his high sense of honour displayed in all his dealing he won respect and esteem, not only for himself, but also brought honour upon the name of Jew everywhere." “

Notes for Bertha (Spouse 1)

Was at 15 Cooper Street, Ottawa at time of death.
Cause of death was Pneumonia.
Death registration Adolph Rosenthal, Ottawa.
Bertha and her four oldest children came to Canada on the SS Thames, departing London and arriving at Quebec 1874 June 21. Husband was not listed on the passenger list.

Estate valued at $87,332 at death.

A clue to her family, mentioning her sister is found:
ROSENTHAL, Mrs. A., of Ottawa, and her sister, Mrs. Feldheim, of Berlin, Germany, are guests of Mrs. Mark Workman, Hutchison St. Mrs. Feldheim returns home March 27, 1905 
(The Canadian Jewish Times, vol. 8, no. 8, numbered 7 [10 March 1905])

 

There is a photo too.

Here is a Rosenthal from a town about 50km from where your Rosenthals originated Poland. He has the same facial features as your Aaron. I reckon he's related somewhere along the line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isidor_Rosenthal

Aaron is said to have arrived in 1867. There are only two Rosenthals who arrived in Victoria that year:

http://prov.vic.gov.au/search_results?searchid=23&format=freetext&FamilyName=Rosenthal&GivenName=&Ship=&Month=0&Monthto=0&Year=0&Yearto=0&SearchSortField1=&SearchSortField2=&SearchRecords=5000

ROSENTHAL A MR A FEB 1867 GEELONG F 113 001

 

ROSENTHAL —- MR 27 DEC 1867 TARARUA N 081 002
Thanks very much Susan! Jim Low was a very good geneologist before he passed away a few years ago. His collection of Eastern Ontario family histories is second to none. The wall I've hit is in identifying Aaron's immediate family members. As many articles state, he appears to have travelled to Australia with siblings ("brothers"). However their names, and those of his parents, remain a mystery -  except Low suggestion that Aaron's mother's maiden name was Von Wolf. I was hoping there were some Australian records that may have lend a clue to his family members.

I also believe that Aaron returned to Europe at one point and met his future wife, Bertha. I think this may explain your suggestion that he "arrived" in Australia in 1867 - the year, incidentally, of his marriage. My understanding is that he originally immigrated to Australia between 1850-52.

If you look at the last suggestion, it shows the names of all Rosenthals entering Victoria in the time frame. If it is Aaron on the Tararua, he came alone. There are no other Rosenthals listed as coming on that ship. Same as for the Geelong in 1867. 

Do the Death records in Canada give parents' names? They often do in Australia (assuming the informant knows them). 

I have found the index online for  David: 

ROSENTHAL

Given namesDavid

EventDeath

Father's name / Spouse's family nameUnknown

Mother's maiden name / Spouse's given nameUnknown (Unknown)

Reg. year1910

Reg. no3520

Sadly, no parents' names given.

The  only death of a Karl (not Carl) I can find is 

ROSENTHAL

Given namesKarl

EventDeath

Father's name / Spouse's family nameROSENTHAL Edward

Mother's maiden name / Spouse's given nameMaria (Flanter)

Reg. year1953

Reg. no6567 and that seems too late.

No Julius. I wonder if they moved interstate. It was common for merchants.

There is a death of a Julius Rosenthal of Manilla in NSW iin 1899

ROSENTHAL JULIUS G R

2231/1899 

JACOB S

ESTHER M

MANILLA

All good info, Susan. But nothing that connects Aaron to any other Rosenthals. I feel strongly that David is related but have yet to see evidence of it... There doesn`t appear to be any mention of Aaron`s parents in his death records on my end. I wouldn`t be at all surprised if they remained in Prussia (perhaps even deceased) prior to his emigration. After all, most sources insist he traveled with his brothers. He was young by all accounts (early teens).
Carl August says he was from Berlin on his naturalisation, but David says he is from Lirpce (?), so the chance of them being brothers is low. Aaron is, however, from Losbens.

It must be frustrating. There are hundreds of Rosenthals in the archives.wish I could be of more help.
No worries, Susan! So glad you took the time to help. Can`t thank you enough!

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