Are we copying the text from a book into the citation now?

Question

I've been seeing citations lately that have the citation information, (author, title, etc.) then in a paragraph following this is what looks like the complete text from the book. Are we doing this now? I went through my copy of of Evidence Explained and couldn't find an example of this. (Chapter 12, pp 643-724)

I've been seeing this with some of my PGM profiles, also.

 

 

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Comments

Gerrie, I think I know what you mean--like a footnote within a citation? I may have been guilty of this myself. The temptation arises (for me) when the text is interesting or illuminating but perhaps not entirely germane to the bio, or when the source is not easily accessible-- like Donald Hebert's SWLR. I'm pretty sure, as long as the text is set off and properly cited, it's fine. But then, I guess what you are saying is that it's NOT fine?

I trust y'all will let me know if I'm wrong. :)

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A funny thing happened when I was checking the sources on a profile awhile back, the source was missing. Yes, the internet had been sited and now the source was missing forever.

I checked another source, only to find that the source was not available unless you paid a subscription fee to read the source.

I checked still another source, alas, it was nowhere to be found.

What good is a source if no one can check it? How time consuming to research sources that have been previously researched.

Wouldn't it be more prudent to add to existing sourced profiles with newly found sources? Or should we all keep researching the same source over and over because nobody wrote it down?

Coe-429 was created 1 November 2011. Isn't it time we start adding some facts and sources? I point my finger at Coe-429 only because it was mentioned above. My family tree is rife with unsourced profiles.When I point a finger at Coe-429, I have three fingers pointing back at myself.

BTW: Facts can not be copyrighted.

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Thank you, all for your answers. I was just seeking to know if we had changed our source guide to include this new way of citing for the improvement of profiles.

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<BTW: Facts can not be copyrighted.> Thank you for adding that point. That's why I added my two cents worth about citation. It's plagiarism if it lacks proper citation; it's a matter of giving the writer proper acknowledgement.

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Coe 429 is a mess, citation-wise. Just needs a little tidying up. Would you like me to do the honors? Freshman comp teacher and I can't resist the chance to edit. LOL!

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My question here is not addressing copyright/plagiarism vs facts., I am only asking if this is how we are doing citations now. I have seen a few profiles where we have a citation then immediately following it there is an indented paragraph(s) with copied text.

It was in no way intended to be a criticism of how Coe-429 is done.

Victoria, if feel you can improve any profile, I would say, "go for it!"

Answer 1

It is standard procedure to include the *relevant* portion of the text in the footnote. Very few of us do it though.

Comments

I'm wondering if the issue is footnote vs. citation. It seems the two have become conflated. People are sometimes writing footnotes exactly as they do citations, but with added text. A footnote should go at the bottom of the page and the citation at the end of the paper. But because most of our bios are relatively short, the bottom of the page IS the end. Maybe a more formal publication would call for a separate heading for footnotes before sources. Maybe we should be doing it that way ....

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Stephanie,

We don't really distinguish them here that way. At least not the way the current style guide is written. In large part because a web page is not a book or typical print publication. So we don't have both Footnotes AND Sources. Profile pages created before the style guide was created and implemented still do have both; as the style guide says, these should be edited to only have:

== Sources ==

<references />

Answer 2

I would name the book and author, pages found for info in book in the citation.

Would only use the text if the book is not copy righted or with permission from the author or publisher.

Answer 3

It depends on how much of the text is quoted. Fair use is allowed, so a small amount could be quoted if adequate sourcing is given.

Answer 4

Many of my Gedcom imports have this "feature," because I had copied the text into the software from which the Gedcom was created -- and I may not have finished cleaning up the profile yet.

Comments

Oh, this must be what I'm seeing happen. Thank you, Ellen.

Answer 5

I'm a little confused by the question. Are you saying that writers are putting the citation before the quoted text. If that's the case then it might be a case of inexperience, writing without editing one's work, or lack of familiarity with the HTML format. I know that I've had a run around or two with text, citations, and sources to get them to fall in place properly.

As far as quoting text, however, I've never found a style guide that limits the length of the quotation. What is paramount is proper citation and accuracy. I checked the Chicago Manual of Style to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding as I am accustomed to using the MLA in another field, but I didn't find any discussion about the length of quoted text. "As long as you cite; it's alright!"