Tudor ancestors, what kind of peerage, if any, could i try and claim?

Question

Hello there, my name is Beth Glasscock. I am into history and genealogy.  I am hoping to find more familial connections as well as try and figure out of peerage can be claimed at all. Rhys Ap Tewdwr is my 23rd great grandfather. If any one could help me out with any of this I would be grateful.

Gruffydd ap Rhys
Rhys brenin gruffydd
Rhys...
Madog ap Rhys

Answer 1

I would think that the most you could claim is that you are descended from a member of the peerage that is if Rhys Ap Tewdwr had a title. The early Welsh didn't have a peerage like Norman England. ranks of the English peerage are Duke, Marquess, Earl, Viscount and Baron. so if you have an ancestor who had one of the above titles then you are descended from a member of the peerage, You are only actually a member of the peerage if you have a title. even some of the Queens grandchildren are not members of the peerage because they have no title eg the children of Princess Ann are  just plain  Mr Peter Phillips and Ms or Mrs Zara( not sure there) Tindall

Comments

My understanding is that there is a thing going on about certain members of the line and their descendants and the claim for title of Prince of Wales or something. I dont jave a great understanding of it but what I read, my ancestor, and two others that are my ancestors brothers have very few if any known descendants that can claim.

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The title Prince of Wales is today given to the monarch's eldest son, the heir. That's Prince Charles, if he becomes King the next Prince of Wales would probably be William.

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I know that Charles has the title but I read about the few lines of descendents from Rhys Ap Twdwr,  and how they supposedly had more claim to it. I'm asking the community if they know any more about this.

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From what I understand the title isn't one that can be passed down only granted by the King/Queen, and they grant it to their heir, and its been that way since 1300s/1400s.

Plus because of war I think the English took control of Wales (and the title) by right of conquest, and even if there were descendents of the Welsh princes of Wales today who could claim it based on inheritence you would have to presumably a legitimate male line descent back to at least the 1400s.

And depending on if you were American even if you did have the right to a peerage, the US might not let you accept it.

It's an interesting question, I'd be interested to see if there was any news on who was trying to claim the title through descent.

The European Aristocratic project will probably be able to help, as they have lots of experts in that area, if you tag your question with their project they will see it

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Thank you very much. I have one woman in the line. And it's my 2nd great grandmother.  I read , my ancestors were also in line of succession for England.  I once again am not sure how true that is. They were all princes of Wales in my line down to when England took over. So  and there was a law made that descendants could claim. And that was when England took over, saying Welsh descendants of my ancestor could claim.  Which would mean it wouldnt be the queens to pass down really, since we are alive. The only reason ots the queens now is because they thought the family had died when their family killed most of them. Curious about truths and speculation xD

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That's interesting do you know any more about that law, and if it's still valid. From what I understood one of the Edwards? (I think) made a deal about it going to someone born in Wales also did not have English as his first language and made it so his son was born in Wales and since they spoke Norman French in court his first language wasn't English. I don't know how true that is though.

I'd be surprised if the English made such a law since they would want to consolidate power, having someone from outside be able to claim would threaten threaten that.

The euro-aristo project would know more about succession, but in English it's tricky lots of people have claimed to be in or out of the line, and it's been broken through conflict.

I think to answer your first question you wouldn't be able to claim a peerage  based on ancestors having the title prince of Wales prior to its merging with the English crown because the title was taken for the English monarch to bestow, you would need a legitimate male descent (including going through first born rules) even if the title continues to exist in that way, that you might not be able to claim it anyway based on citizenship, and that they tend to keep close records who inherits peerages because of the rights attached to it. Plus you mention they thought the line died out, so once that happened the title would revert back to the crown anyway.

But I don't really know much in this area, so who knows, good luck for finding your answers though

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Hello there, so, other than the Tudor family, through my father's mother McCoy, Sophia of hannover is a 3rd cousin x times removed. I thought that was cool. Then the McCoy goes to Stewart's and Kennedy's. Margaret Stewart and a Mackie. Margaret father is Alexander III Garlies Stewart.

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The line from (Sophia of Hanover) is the accepted line to the throne, it was enacted around 1933 I think. You must come from this line to sit the throne.

mine.

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Hannover-46&person2_name=Martin-32982