What profiles should be marked with a "Roots" tag?

+10 votes
  1. All profiles whose centre of gravity lies in the country at issue.
  2. Profiles that conform to the requirement of at least one source that confirms Last Name At Birth.
  3. Profiles that cry out for help in order to satisfy that requirement.

Which of the above? 

in Requests for Project Volunteers by Dirk Laurie G2G6 Mach 3 (35k points)
retagged by Bea Wijma

2 Answers

+4 votes

Hi Dirk, 

Great question, we of course are still working on the project and the pages, but we would really like to hear what our members think, would like or prefer.

For the Dutch Roots Project we all have decided the project template is only added to profiles if they are sourced (at least one, primary preferred, source for LNAB) and improved. Of course you can add the template to your own profile and family members already, but for the older profiles sources are needed of course ..

Members have a lot of freedom in the DR project, so if someone likes to write a narrative with inline sources that's fine, if a member is not so good in writing a narrative or adding inline sources that's ok as well, and they can add them to the sources section of the Bio. We have added a short list of example profiles, people can use to see which way they feel/think they can manage, try and if their profiles look like one of these, they can add the template...

So depending on the experience and preference of our members our profiles all look different. This we decided to keep it KISS and to make sure all members can join and work on perhaps just their own family members or together on the older project profiles, but everyone knows what needs to be done, has examples how it can be done and is going to help and able to work on sourcing and improving DR profiles. 

If South African profiles are Unsourced  (crying out for help) you can of course add the {{Unsourced|South Africa}} template to these profiles and that's where members can find them. You can also look if perhaps there's a project already they could fall under and perhaps this project has a template or category that can be added as well (or instead of the Unsourced one) . 

We can perhaps use a similar maintenance template system we are using at the DR project for the South African Roots Project also? (it was invented by Louis Heyman ;) ) 

This is of course a different project and I can only tell what was decided for the DR project by the DR members, so if someone maybe has a better or very different idea or more than one we of course would love to hear ! :)

by Bea Wijma G2G6 Pilot (260k points)
edited by Bea Wijma
+4 votes
Hi Dirk,

Thank you, I appreciate your enthusiasm

At the moment only those people who would like to become members of the project until the project's infrastructure is in place. We need that to identify the new members. In a week or so the pages and full instructions will be online.
by Louis Heyman G2G6 Mach 5 (51.1k points)
I think your answer applies perfectly to


where at present only you and I are listed :-)

My question was directed more at what should be in


which at present contains six living and seven deceased people.

Aaah now that makes it a bit more clear. that's (so the one your question was about) actually the category created by the template (plakker, sjabloon), so all people or profiles with the South African Roots template (or just it's category) added to their Bio, you can find here Category:South_African_Roots... so for the other part ...see my previous answer about the template ...

The South African Roots Project template (plakker) is/does the same as this categoryCategory: South_African_Roots (so if a profile already has a template from a different project, and if you think or feel it should be added to the South African Roots Project as well, you can add these profiles to the project by adding only this category...

To add yourself as a member of/ or to add page(s) to the project you can use the Category:South_African_Roots_Project 

Because it is a Top level project, the Top level project category page is like a Project Index (it's not finished yet of course), where you can find all members, (free space) pages, ,(sub) projects so everything part of falling under or related to the project ,this category isn't meant for profiles, so only for living (WT) South African Roots Project members. 

If you are South African by Birth or descendant of a South African family and also a member of the project, you can have both added to your profile so the members only category + the template...so the one that will show you're a member of this project ..and the one that will add you to the profile page where all South African Roots profiles  ( the page where the living people and deceased ancestors) can be found.

You already added the project to your followed tags ...that's great, well I had to remove one of my tags , but now it's three of us ;)

The project pages as Louis explained of course are not quite finished, but you discovered them already eeh , so my question for all members or people that are interested is, what do you all think should we only add the template to sourced and improved profiles or ...?
Thank you Louis :) And of course feel free to explain or discuss things in your own language if that's more easy, I can understand and read it , only writing is a bit difficult (would have to use google translate and that's not always perfect ...
Je kunt gerust in Nederlands schrijven. Afrikaanse moedertaalsprekers over 50 hebben op school twee Nederlandse boeken moeten bestuderen (de mijne waren De Kleine Johannes en Kinderen) en de kunst van intelligent raden is vaak niet gestorven. Wij vinden Nederlands een leuk taaltje :-)

Baie dankie Dirk, dat scheelt weer en wat leuk, ik heb ook Kleine Johannes moeten lezen op school en was dol op lezen en tekenen, ik heb uuuren doorgebracht in de bibliotheken en ook heeel veel getekend en gebruikte veel illustraties uit boeken als voorbeeld om na te tekenen  :) 

Grappig en wij vinden Afrikaans ook een leuk taaltje hoor, het leest voor ons een beetje als het oud Nederlands :)

 I  think that you are saying that the badge should not be placed upon anyone but those born in South Africa or descendants of those born there.

But I am still confused, the historical list of events given in the initial post (and expanded on in the thread) covers a wide range of historical events most of which happened before the Union .  I suppose one sense you could say that the people who lived or played a part in these events were part of the roots of the present day nation but  the mission statement doesn't say that

 "The South Africa Project is a project for WikiTreers interested in improving the profiles of South African people and their descendants (1807 till now). This project serves as a forum for researchers and descendants of all people born in South Africa so for everyone with South African Roots. The Mission is to improve and add sources to all profiles belonging to the South African Roots Project

 Here are a few examples from my husband's family. I'm sure that they are not unusual.

John Edkins  came to the Cape  with his family as  colonists in 1820. They were born in Reading, England

  The  brothers of William Mc Dowell Fynn    , a relative Of John Edkin's wife by marriage.( These don't  have profiles as TBH they so difficult to research and write). Henry and Frank Fynn were Anglo-Irish and at least some of their wives Zulu. (they left a large number of descendants)


https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ford-6023   arrived in 1902 and spent the rest of his career South Africa (and what is now Lestho) playing roles in the Anglican church. (so definitely the country became his centre of gravity) Many of his descendants live in modern South Africa but he was born in Oxford St London .

I don't feel happy about categorising any of these people as having, South African roots but they  played some part in the development of the nation today so should rightly come under the umbrella of a top level South Africa project.

I hate sounding so nit picking so have several times deleted this without posting. The people who  set up the project have obviously put a lot of  work into it  and they are rightly excited and proud of it. I would have felt less uncomfortable and confused if it had simply been named the South Africa Project (in much the same way as the Australian and New Zealand projects)  .

Hi Helen,

Thank you, I can see that there are a bit of confusion, because the project pages are in draft at the moment. The most important part of any family tree is their progenitors although not born in SA, they are a crucial part of the descendant line for people born in a country. If you are saying that SA roots only applies to people born in SA, it is incorrect because it includes progenitors.

Hi Helen, 

I think I can maybe explain things a bit more for you, a Roots Project is sort of an umbrella, not only for profiles / people with South African Roots, but also for pages/ (sub) Projects related to /part of South Africa or its History.

The Top Level Roots Project is just one place where all people/members can find everything (pages, projects, profiles) about or related to South Africa and where we all can think of, talk/chat about, discuss or ask things in our own language. There will be a help page in the own language and more. So a Roots Project just is a place where everything related to and everyone who is interested in this part of the World comes together. 

So we can (will) start Sub projects like for example :

The South African War, South Africa Anglo boere oorlog  9 October 1899 to 31 May 1902 

* South Africa 1820 British Settlers 

And there are probably more we can think of, but all Sub Projects are separate projects with perhaps their own and different guidelines, different coordinator(s) and so on. 

But all ''South African'' (Sub) Projects now can fall under the South African Roots Project (the Umbrella) and.. sub projects won't have their own badges. 

So if for example you would like to join and work on just the South Africa 1820 British Settlers Project, you/ all project members, no matter what project falling under the South African Roots Project you/ they are joining, will all be awarded the same South African Roots Project Badge. But... these Sub Projects will all have and use their own project template(s) or categories  for the profiles part of the (Sub) Project. 

And we of course can also decide to create categories (or templates) for different Historical events/times to be able to categorize people /profiles more proper or specific without starting a new sub project for each and everything . 

But your example, John Edkins, will be part of the Project: South Africa 1820 British Settlers and profiles part of this project will have a project template telling us something like : 

John Edkins was a British Settler who came to  South Africa  during 1820 

Hope it helps :)

Thanks Bea :)
My pleasure Louis and thank You ! :)
Thank you, that clarifies things a lot. I really was concerned  about sticking a modern SA flag onto a 19th C British settler let alone a 19th C Zulu woman.
Happy I could clarify things for you Helen, and thanks for adding your question/concerns here, it's really very helpful and not nit picking at all. Thanks to you now other members who perhaps were having the same concerns can find some answers right here . :)

So feel free to ask anything you want !

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