Does anybody have more information about these records? (Death; Yorkshire, England; 1837)

Question

Hi

I've been researching Joseph Lockwood Barratt, and I believe this is his death record:

Name	Joseph Lockwood Barratt
Event Type	Death
Registration Quarter	Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year	1837
Registration District	Wakefield
County	Yorkshire
Event Place	Wakefield, Yorkshire, England
Volume	22
Page	234
Line Number	9

Citing this Record

"England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2N68-Y1R : 31 December 2014), Joseph Lockwood Barratt, 1837; from "England & Wales Deaths, 1837-2006," database, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : 2012); citing Death, Wakefield, Yorkshire, England, General Register Office, Southport, England.

But would this one also be about him? Both the first record is within September, and I know Stanley is in Wakefield. If so it would give me a possible birth range, but if so I wonder why he was in an Asylum, but may explain why he died in Wakefield and not Leeds. Thanks. 

Name	Joseph Barratt
Residence Place	of Asylum
Gender	Unknown
Burial Date	05 Sep 1837
Burial Place	Stanley, York, England
Age	71
Birth Date	1766

Citing this Record

"England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZHK-93B : 24 December 2014), Joseph Barratt, 05 Sep 1837; citing , reference D191/1/16p45; FHL microfilm 1,450,496.

 

Comments

I think the new index on the GRO site shows age at death, which will help to confirm that it's the same person.

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Age on Gro is 70

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There are two birth records for Joseph Barrett born on the same day in 1770, on Ancestry.  One with mother listed as Elizabeth.  

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Name:	Joseph Barrett
Event Date:	12 Aug 1770
Event Type:	Baptism
Parish:	Barnsley, St Mary
Father's name:	Benjn Barrett

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Name:	Joseph Barratt
Gender:	Male
Christening Date:	12 Aug 1770
Christening Place:	Gnosall, Staffordshire, England
Father:	John Barratt
Mother:	Elizabeth

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From my experience, the death records for England don't offer very specific info, unfortunately.  

Also, I believe asylum does not have to mean "insane asylum".  But there are about 5 or 6 death records for a Joseph Barrett on Ancestry.

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This record may be of some interest.  Could he be a brother to Joseph?  Is this the same St. Mary's as in one of the birth records (I don't know the geography).

 

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Name:	John Lockwood Barrett
Marriage Date:	24 Sep 1801
Parish:	Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Spouse's Name:	Ann Metcalf
Archive Roll:	690

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Here's some info about the Stanley Asylum which I think must be the asylum he died in, There are a lot of burials from there in the register.(note it is a website advertising a book about it's history) http://www.wakefieldasylum.co.uk/  It tells you where to access archived patient records.

The writer has a lot of videos on youtube about the place, mostly in more recent times but there are some older photos.

 

 

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You might find the Federation of Family History Societies helpful. They are compiling an National Burial Index, taking details from churches and Parish Registers. I have been helping in my area until recently, when I had to stop due to family commitments. I don't know if all of the UK has been completed yet, but it's worth a try.

Answer 1

Here is the corresponding death record from Ancestry, with the burial place being the same as were he married (can't stop digging for info on this one for some reason). ; P 

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Name:	Joseph Barratt
Death Age:	71
Birth Year:	abt 1766
Burial Date:	5 Sep 1837
Parish:	Stanley, St Peter, Yorkshire, England
Search Photos:	Search for 'Stanley, St Peter' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection

Comments

Thought I'd write down the Information I do have on Joseph Lockwood B for ease:

Married: Ann Rosindale on 25 Nov 1793 in St Peter's, Leeds, W.R.Yorks.
Children: Hannah Lockwood Barrett christened 9 Jul 1804 in St Peter's, Leeds; and Mary Ann Barrett x.same day and same place
Died: 1837 in Wakefield, W.R.Yorks possibly in Insane-poor asylum, but maybe a different person.

In regard to the possible christening record, its hard to guess his age, if we presume the asylum record is his it gives a possible date of 1766, and his marriage would make it the closest date about 1779, so anywhere between about 1760 and 1779, I presume in Yorkshire where these other events happened.

The John Lockwood B is interesting but thats in Manchester, in Lancashire, and the other st Mary parish is in Barnsley, in Yorkshire, unless they were Navvies they probably wouldn't move that far.

Thank you for all your effort, Joseph L seems to be a complicated person

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You're welcome!  I'm fond of naming patterns.  If the marriage record of John Lockwood B. is a clue, here is another birth record that may be of interest.  His mothers name is Hannah (I see he had a daughter Hannah). 

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Name:	Joseph Barrett
Event Type:	Baptism
Baptism Date:	18 Sep 1768
Parish:	Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's name:	John Barrett
Mother's name:	Hannah Barrett
Archive Roll:	753

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This could be another piece to the puzzle:

Name:	Hannah Lockwood
Gender:	Female
Marriage Date:	2 Nov 1767
Marriage Place:	Bolton Abbey,York,England
Spouse:	John Barret
FHL Film Number:	477646

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Perhaps Hannah's family was from York, where they married.  And John was from Lancashire.  And Joseph ended up in Yorkshire.

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That would make sense, I did often wonder if Lockwood was a maiden name from parents or grandparents

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Just looked up that marriage they are listed in the peerage, and no Joseph Lockwood is mentioned so it doesn't look like they are his parents

http://thepeerage.com/p53574.htm

Answer 2

I have followed the thread throughout today.

I think it unlikely your two entries are not connected.

Stanley Royd Hospital in Wakefield is correctly known as the West Riding Pauper Lunatic Asylum. The records of patients are accessible through the West Yorkshire Archive Service, in Wakefield. (https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/archives/176e7efc-c576-3cab-a7e5-9e8f665556ad).

In the GRO new death register, this gives Josephs's age as 70.

Answer 3

One is a Death Record ( Death Registration) and one is a burial record (not sure if the asylum would keep these records but Churches / Crematoriums / Cemeteries certainly do) so two different things. Just like a Birth Registration and Baptism Record are different.