Cymru vs British Isles

Question

The profile of Tudor Trevor currently has two badges on it:  

{{Cymru 742-1535}}
{{British Isles 742-1499|title place=Wales}}

Is one or the other preferred, or should both be there?  Both say the person was a member of royalty, nobility or aristocracy; the first in Wales in the Middle Ages, and the second in the British Isles.  The first directs people to discuss under Cymru and the second directs people to discuss under Euroaristo.    Since Wales is in the British Isles, both could seem appropriate, but duplicative,

Comments

The British Isles is a geographical term rather than a political one and describes the large islands of Britain and Ireland plus all the smaller islands regardless of political status.

Cymru is the Welsh name for Wales. It's certainly physically located within the British Isles however as it's a political demarcation of territory it's a different type of category. The border could change over time for example.

So what's the answer? I have no idea.

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Thinking about this some more ...

I think the Euroaristo project has made an error in using British Isles as a category. England has been a kingdom since at least Athelstan (arguably Alfred) and all titles in Britain since then derive from either the Kingdom of England (which includes Wales as territory) or the Kingdom of Scotland (until they were united in 1707). I'm not sure about Ireland before 1542 but doubtless there's something analogous. Before Alfred we can refer to the Heptarchy as the top-level authorities.

Answer 1

Jack, This is a great question.  I think that, as he was Welsh and in was in Wales, the Cymru project would be the appropriate project.  The British Isles project is overarching, and I think the narrower focus is best, so the Bristish Isles template should be removed.  That being said, when I find a profile that fits within a project, and another project has already put its badge on that profile, I just put the project category on the profile to avoid "badge overload."

For me, the question becomes: What do you do when two or more NON-RELATED projects fit an individual?  Do you put badges for each project? An example might be a person who belongs in the Black Sheep Project, but also in the Australian Convicts and First Settlers Project. Or, a specific example, (but perhaps not non-related projects), Catherine of Aragon, Aragón-160, who is thrice badged: British Isles, EuroAristo, and Notables.

Comments

I think when this has come up before it is the project that is managing the profile that should have the project template, and in this case it is probably Cymru.  But I should point out that the other project template is actually a Euroaristo subproject dealing with profiles from the British Isles during that time period.  If we are just saying British Isles then that is another project altogether.

In G2G discussions about templates, there was a view expressed (from Chris?) that there shouldn't be more than 2 project templates on any one profile.  Again there are actually 2 Euroaristo templates, one British Isles, the other European on Catherine of Aragon's profile.  I'd favour just having the British Isles version, because that's where she spent most of her life.

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Most aristocratic titles were intimately connected with land so I think it would be better to use that to determine location rather than where the individual lived.

Of course this doesn't neatly solve the issue since many aristocrats had multiple titles linked to landholdings but I still think it's a better guiding principle.

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Is the theory of Chris a bit like how Wiki categories work? An article in a sub-category should never also be categorized for a broader Category because it is assumed that all of the one is a subset of the other.

I presume that if that is the approach there will be Welsh aristocrats and there will also be aristocrats who need to be named in a broader category such as British because their titles were not restricted to one region.