Scottish Place Name Help - "Inverchaggernay"? [closed]

Question

What place in Scotland could "Inverchaggernay" refer to?

My ancestor Patrick Campbell's death in 1774 was recorded in the Argyll Commissary Court with the note "Sometime of Inverchaggernay, thereafter at Dundrave". I've established from other sources that "Dundrave" is Dunderave but "Inverchaggernay" ? Hoping a Scot can perhaps help me out. I thought at first it might have been Inverchaolain because the South Hall estate there was owned by Campbells at the time, including another Patrick Campbell, but since finding out how Inverchaolain is pronounced, I'm not so sure. Thanks for your interest. Very garteful for any suggestions.

Comments

The 'g' was probably a yogh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh

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Perhaps something to do with the lands and castle of Inveraray. ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Campbell

Interesting reading but doesn't answer your question.

Good luck!!

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Do you have an image of this record? It could easily have been mistranscribed.

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Thanks for this interesting clue.

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Thanks. The trouble with Campbells is there are just so many of them, and only half a dozen Christian names.

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Yeah I suspect it was mistranscribed or perhaps the spelling was a bit creative to start with. I've seen a scan of a printed page but I don't know if the original handwritten entry is available. Thanks for your suggestion.

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This has same spelling.

Scottish Highlanders on the Eve of the Great Migration, 1725-1775: ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0806352884

David Dobson - 2005 - ‎Reference

CAMPBELL, PATRICK, sometime in Inverchaggernay, thereafier at Dundarave, parish of Kilmorich, cnf 5 July 1774, Argyll. [NAS.CC2/3/] CAMPBELL, PETER, ...

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Yes, thanks. I have seen that page and it does appear to be taken from the same death record.I appreciate your interest.

Answer 1

Hi

It's the name of a farm near Crainlarich in Perthshire, Scotlandi believe the district is Killin.

Comments

Brilliant.  Many thanks.

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=238467&y=725428&z=120&sv=crianlarich&st=3&tl=Map+of+Crianlarich,+Stirling+[Town]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf

 

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Oh thankyou!!!! I'm so excited there are tears in my eyes. And that does support Killin being his place of birth.

Do you live near there, or did you already know of it?
I love connecting people with places. Knowing their names is not enough for me. Thank you so, so much!!

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Thanks so much for the map reference! I was starting to think I'd have to learn Gaelic to get to the bottom of this. I'm very excited.

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So what's the story, if he was "in" Inverhaggernie, then "at" Dundarave?  In Scotland, that's significant.  Did he inherit a castle from a distant cousin or something?

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Well that's what I want to find out. He didn't inherit the castle: it was the seat of the McNaughtons until around 1689 when it came into the hands of Campbell of Arkinglas. There's a great deal on the net about how the Campbells "tricked" the MacNaughtons into losing their lands and castle, including a wonderful story of the MacNaughton Laird wanting to marry a Campbell lass, but tricked into marrying an older sister. The story goes that he then ran away with the younger sister and set up a new seat in Ireland. It's more likely the lands and castle were confiscated and handed to the Campbells, but it's a great story.

What's harder to find is information about who lived at Dunderave in that period after it was acquired, which is when my Patrick was growing up. Presumably some Campbells were installed there to run the place and Patrick must have been one of them. He's mentioned in Burke's Landed Gentry as "of Dunderave" , which suggests he was "gentry". He had 15 children by two wives!! His daughter Beatrix married a James Murdoch Esquire and they called their son James Campbell Murdoch. The tradition of giving a son the name Campbell went on for six generations and survived migration to Australia. I was taught to think of myself as a Scot of Clan Campbell! You can take the people out of Scotland but you can't take Scotland out of the people.

It's giving me such a thrill to find out where it all started. Very grateful for people giving up their time to help.

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Well full marks for cheek, but none for originality - the wrong-daughter story is in Genesis.

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Yes, I gather the MacNaughtons were no great friends of the Campbells, so a story of subterfuge (involving a lot of good whisky) was necessary to save face. However they did go to Ireland and set up another estate which they also called Dunderave (with an "a") and are apparently still there. I love all these stories, and seeing photos of the places. It gives context to what I know about my forebears. I keep all my notes and links and favourite photos in a blog at http://maudetoculloden.blogspot.com.au/

Cheers,

Anne

Answer 2

From  https://archive.org/stream/scottishrecordso09scotuoft/scottishrecordso09scotuoft_djvu.txt

This says 

Kilmonivaig, in Invernessshire. is in Argyll.

Could it perhaps be Invergarry  http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/partner/Invergarry?id=6591&class=populated%20place&county=Inverness-shire&parish=Kilmonivaig

Comments

Thanks for this. I think the "Inver" part is probably fairly reliable. I've already found a few possible candidates. Wish it were fewer - a more obvious fit would be so much more convenient.

Answer 3

This site thinks he spent most of his life in Perthshire

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=doigk&id=I45184

Comments

Thanks. I have been to this page before. I've got reasons to think  this family tree is not reliable, based on information they've given for other family members. I'm considering Killin as a possible birth place though, but I want to follow up "Inverchaggernay" to see if that confirms it. I appreciate your interest.

Answer 4

There is a search but there are more than 24,000 place names in Argyll.

http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/partner/Argyll?class=county&id=3

Comments

Thanks for the link. I've done a bit of scrolling through and come up with a couple of possibilities already. I appreciate your help.

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Hi again Anne,

The family history society for Glasgow and West Scotland may be able to decipher this name.  After scrolling many pages as well as medieval references, I think a note to the society might work.  They may  be able to give some guidance to you in your search for the placename as found in the e-book.uk as Maria mentioned.   Also a note to the webmaster of the Clan Campbell may yield some result.

http://www.gwsfhs.org.uk/

Best of luck, Linda

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Thanks Linda. Another member has identified it as Inverhaggernie, a farm near Crainlarich in Perthshire. I'll keep your suggestions in  mind, though, for any other queries I have. I appreciate your help.

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As this was originally about a possible mis-spelling, you might want to note that the correct spelling for the town is Crianlarich as in the link RJ Horace posted and pronounced Cree - an - larich with the "ch" pronounced like the "ch" in loch :-)

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Thank you Sheena. I'm looking into Crianlarich now. It looks like a rather wild place.

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Patrick Campbell, sometime in Inverchaggerny and later at Dunderave, was apparently son of Colin Campbell, tacksman of Lix (Killin), a descendant of the Campbells of Ardkinglas. Patrick's son Archibald married Anne Campbell (date of marriage contract 1755) and they had Alexander baptised 1756 and Patrick 1757. In both baptism entries (in Killin Register) the parents are described as "in Inverchaggerny". Hope this helps.

Hew

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Oh, this is interesting Hew. I gave my Patrick a father called Patrick but perhaps I was mistaken. I'm very interested in the connection to Ardkinglass because that would explain why a farmer's son was said to be "of Dunderave". I'd better have another look at the Killin Register. Do you know if any of these people already have profiles on WikiTree?

Thanks so much for the information. Are you connected to this family at all?