What should be in the Proper First Name field of a French-Canadian unnamed infant?

Question

I am doing a One Place Study for a French-Canadian town and there are many records of infants who died before they were given a name.

The parish burial records describe these children with one of two terms--either "Anonyme [father's last name]" or "Ondoyé [father's last name]."  Ondoyé is a term which refers to the fact that the child was emergency-baptized at home before death; I have read that "Anonyme" means the child was NOT emergency-baptized, but I'm not 100% sure this is always the case.

When I created profiles I used "Anonyme" when the record said Anonyme and "Ondoyé" when the record said that.  I know that's not the child's "name," but I thought it was appropriate, as it was given in place of the "Christian name" on the original records.

A fellow WTer saw one of the Ondoyé profiles and changed the name to "Unknown" instead, because Ondoyé is not a name...but "Unknown" is also not a name!  The child's first name is not unknown; it never had one.  So I checked the Name Fields help page and saw this:

• If an infant died before he or she could be named, use Unnamed Infant. Do not use Infant Boy, Baby Girl, etc. There is a gender field for this.

This seems very reasonable.  But earlier on the help page there is a lot of emphasis on WikiTree's "use their conventions instead of ours" rule, so I am wondering...

"Unnamed Infant" is an English term that these French-speaking people would not have used.  Their records clearly describe unnamed children as "Ondoyé" and "Anonyme."  So should those terms be used, or not?  Or does it need to be written in English for some sort of database reason?  I recognize that having the English "Unknown" as a consistent LNAB is important, but does this need to be the case for the first name as well?

(I think this problem may have originated with the fact that none of these children have identified genders, so they're showing up as errors for Database Doctors.  If that's the case, then DB doctors need to know that you should NOT use "unknown" for for an infant who was unnamed.)

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated :)  Otherwise I will stick with the site rule and change all of the French names to the English "Unnamed Infant."

Comments

It seems to me that the French should be used for French speaking families.  Perhaps Wikitree needs a reference for this sort of thing.  Converting the name on a record to an English language term seems to me to be  1)  against "use their conventions instead of ours"  and

2) making English the ʻpredominateʻ language - which appears to make Wikitree a bit exclusive and not open to "their conventions" and

3) indicating that English is the superior language - which is not true and we should recognize that - in this tree that is meant to connect everyone to one tree.

Anyone who does not understand a term in a biography or name should look up the term, not change it to English.  French speakers using the site have to ʻlook upʻ English terms.

Ok.  Off my Anthropologist podium.

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Oh gosh! I guess I should change all my Swedish Unknowns (first name and LNAB) to Okänd.

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Here is my suggestion put Infant, and in () put it in french also so people know it could be called that term also.

Answer 1

Never use ondoyé, since that can be done to a child who survives, in which case you often see supplemental baptismal rites recorded.  Anonyme is the correct term to use in French.  The records for such are burials, and many do not record the sex.  I agree that there should be some sort of choice given to mark these as un-gendered so they don't come up in DB errors.

Comments

I have never seen "ondoyé" except on burials; thank you Danielle!  I will make certain to change all of those; depending on how discussion goes I will either change them to Anonyme or to Unnamed Infant as per the rules.

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Absolutely.  "ondoyé" can be seen on baptism records of children who were given a preliminary baptism at birth. As there was a doubt with the validity of the baptism in that case, because of the quality of the water used, a full ceremony was performed later if the child survived and recorded as a "conditional baptism". (baptisé sous condition).

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most of the children who got what is termed lay baptism get ''supplemental rites'' rather, conditional baptism was something else, often to do with whether the parents were actually practicing or even Roman Catholic, or other conditions (which never get written out in the records that I have seen).  An emergency lay baptism does not have any doubt cast upon it, and is considered valid by the Church.  Anyone of the church can do it.  Supplemental rites give the child godparents to look after his religious upbringing (the actual purpose of godparents originally), and record the child into the church.

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Oh yes, of course, my bad. The registers I have been working on (in Belgium and France) are from Roman Catholic parishes. Hence the doubt on the validity of the first baptism (peformed by a midwife with what water she had on hand, consequently, not holy water).

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having been brought up as RC, I do remember that lay baptism was totally valid, and the water used was irrelevant, since the act of baptizing itself renders the water used ''holy''  ;)

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Honestly, I like your answer better than mine, it makes much more sense. Say my information was wrong. As it happens, I was "ondoyée" when I got sick as a baby and a few weeks later received complementary rites at church, with ceremony, family and so on. My parents had managed to get a priest for the preliminary though !

I think we all agree that "ondoyé" should not be in the First Name field ;)

Answer 2

Hi Sarah,

It makes a lot of sence your own answer.

"Use their conventions instead of ours" applies for names.

Those children didn't receive a given name: They were unnamed infants.

Comments

Right, but we're not leaving the name field blank.  "Unnamed Infant" isn't a name, it's two English words that we're sticking in the "Proper First Name" field.  "Unnamed Infant" is a descriptive title, not a name; I believe that "Ondoyé" and "Anonyme" are better descriptive titles under the circumstances, and I would guess that other cultures have their own distinct descriptive titles as well.

I think WikiTree wants all unnamed infants, regardless of language and culture, to fall under the English "Unnamed Infant" title because it helps eliminate confusion.  This is why I actually really like Magnus' solution below:  if "unnamed infant" becomes a qualifier to the name field, then it doesn't matter what occupies the actual name field; profiles are free to use the most culturally appropriate term.

Answer 3

With my IT background I would say

1. Unknown is not a name
2. We just would like to tell others that the name is not known

Best practise I would say is to add qualifiers to WikiTree fields as we have for No Siblings 

 

 

Comments

I actually really like this solution!  In fact, I think this idea could solve a more complicated problem, which is that unnamed infants are showing up as database errors for not having a selected gender.  If we add a qualifier to the field we can make it so that those with the "unnamed infant" box checked should not show up with a "no gender selected" error.  (Maybe we can even auto-complete the process of going through and selecting "no children" and "no spouse" if you've already said the person was an unnamed infant...but that wouldn't be necessary, it would just be to make things a bit quicker.)

Also, if we do this, people can use whatever "name" or term is most appropriate for the person's culture and not have to worry about it being confusing.

Answer 4

I view Ondoyé as a status qualifier and not a “name” at all. This should be put in the notes. Anonyme means unknown or anonymous and could be used as the first name.

Comments

I agree with  James LaLone ..  (Using the French syntax and spelling. )

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I feel similarly.  I only used Ondoyé as a "name" replacement because it was written that way in the original records.  The original records are written in a specific formula, just like how we on WikiTree have a formula.  The priests at the time chose "Ondoyé" to occupy what we would call the "proper first name" field in their own records, so I thought we should respect that.  I also figured there was a practical reason--if you are searching a database of original records, or a transcription of original records, searching for the name "Ondoyé Langevin" will limit your results and help you find the person you're looking for.

But over the current rule, I would prefer a solution where all French-speaking unnamed infants could be called Anonyme, because I feel that adheres most closely to WT's policies.  I also feel really awkward about changing existing Anonymes to "Unnamed Infant."  For example, the difference between the children of [[Jobin-121|Jean Baptiste Jobin]]:

Currently: Victoire, Joseph, Julie Célina, Joséphine, Denise, Marie Adélaïde, Onésime, Anonyme

Changed to: Victoire, Joseph, Julie Célina, Joséphine, Denise, Marie Adélaïde, Onésime, Unnamed Infant

I can certainly put up with it but I don't especially like it.

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More on the subject - http://habitantheritage.org/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/The_Nameless_-_Suzanne.181156.pdf

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Great article, James!

Answer 5

What I see my French relatives use a lot is "inconnu"  which translates as I do not know or unkown.  Inconnu nomen would be unknown name.  

I have a grid I created with "native" speakers or Latinists for the Latin column that takes common genealogy terms and translates them into multiple languages.  I am happy to share it but do not know how to attach an excel file here...  you can always send me a private message with your email and I can email out to anyone who wants it.

Comments

I'm actually really glad you brought up "inconnu" because you're right; it is used for "unknown," but not "unnamed."

If a child dies without ever having received a name, then that name is not "unknown."  There is no name to "know."  Instead, the child is unnamed (anonymous); hence "Anonyme."

"Inconnu" is used when there should be a name, but the priest didn't know what it was.  In my OPS I have only encountered it as a last name, because every child is automatically born with the last name of the father.  If the father is unknown (illegitimate birth), then the last name is "Inconnu."  So far I've only seen this in baptisms and burials where the child otherwise has been given a first name--"Joseph Inconnu" or "Marie Inconnu," etc.

I suppose if a priest found an unknown baby on the doorstep of the church, and the baby subsequently died before it could be baptized, it would be buried as "Anonyme Inconnu"...but I've never encountered a case with both names.

Whether or not "Inconnu" is an appropriate last name using "their" conventions is a different conversation that's much more complicated because of WT's LNAB requirements, of course.

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actually, illegitimate children with an unknown father but a known mother get the last name of the mother.  Only when neither parent is known (woman dying in childbirth in a place where she is unknown totally would be an example, or baby abandoned on doorstep).  

Many of the children whose father was unknown adopted either their father's name later in life (when someone told them who he was), or else adopted a ''dit'' name of their own.

Please, let's stay away from creating profiles that have Inconnu as a last name, just as ideally we stay away from creating them with Unknown.  There are a horrendous number of such in Wikitree already.  We know the person had to exist to have a child, but we don't need to create a profile for them until we know who they are at least a bit, with some proper source to indicate that.

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That's good to know about inconnu.  In my OPS I have never seen a case where the mother was known but not the father; they're always both parents unknown.  I have wondered if this is sometimes to protect the identity of the mother, but I certainly don't want to over-speculate.

I haven't yet been able to confirm any inconnu children being adopted or taking on another last name, but I hope someday I will be able to confirm one.

I agree with Danielle 100% about avoiding "unknown" profiles unless there is a necessary reason.  I have an unrealistic goal to create profiles for everyone in the records of my One Place Study, but I do NOT create profiles until I have enough information to make it worthwhile.  I'm happy to index their records, but a dozen "Marie Inconnu" profiles aren't going to benefit anyone.

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I think there are a couple of different issues here:

1.  When to create a profile vs when to leave the father or mother blank.

2.  If a profile exists and only a first name is known, what to call the last name if you do not know it.  Sounds like the WikiTree Style Guide favors Anonymous over Unknown.  

3.  Anonyme in French is anonymous.  But I have never seen a French record use this and the question was what would the French use?  They would use inconnu in all the records I have seen but that does not fit with WikiTree Style Guide it seems.  

4.  What is the definition of Anonymous?  Merriam Webster has this:

Definition of anonymous

1. 1:  of unknown authorship or origin <an anonymous tip>

2. 2:  not named or identified <an anonymous author> <They wish to remain anonymous.>

3. 3:  lacking individuality, distinction, or recognizability <the anonymous faces in the crowd> < … the gray anonymous streets … — William Styron>

4. So to recap, if you want to follow what we see most regularly in French records it is inconnu but if you want to match what is used in WikiTree English records then go with anonyme.  I think the group just needs to make a decision and go with it.  The Style Guide is in conflict because what the French would do (follow the culture) is in conflict with English Style Guide. 

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The discussion here veered off in a different direction so I just want to make sure I clear this up (best as I can, typing on mobile):

Original post is about FIRST NAME only. The Drouin collection has several hundred, possibly thousands, of burial records for unnamed infants. The vast majority of these are for children of two known, named parents whose child died before it could be baptized and given a first name. These profiles SHOULD be created for many reasons; dozens already exist.

"Anonyme" is a term for unnamed infants in the original records themselves (other terms are used; the records cover a lot of places and times; but I know there are hundreds of these Anonyme records). It refers to the fact that the child never had a first name (no official baptism).

I would like to suggest a change to WikiTree's policy that all unnamed infants, regardless of what contemporary records say or what language the parents spoke, should be named "Unnamed Infant [Last Name]."

The discussion about inconnu is about unknown LAST names and that's actually a completely different issue. Last names on WT need special rules. I would like to change the rule for the "Proper First Name" field only.

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That makes sense for first names.  I have not seen many French records with only a last name.  Because I think in the time period I am dealing in most often they named and baptized children as quickly as possible because of the high mortality rate and the location had a resident person who was authorized to baptize.  I see a number of them with the same birth and death date.  But they have names.  It tends to be with the illegitimate births that I see inconnu.  Where the mother is not saying who the father was.  Sometimes the child is given the surname of the mother and sometimes not.  I am not sure why there was inconsistency in how that was handled.

Answer 6

The parish registers I could work with generally just use "enfant de (parents names or just father)". Some times they say "un enfant anonyme de"... but I'm not sure I would be comfortable using it as a name for unnamed children. Usually "Anonymous" in Wikitree is for cases where privacy is an issue.

The records generally say "ondoyé", and that's to indicate that the first rites of baptism were performed so that the child can be given a Christian sepulture. If the child survives supplemental rites or a conditional baptism are performed later.

Can't think of anything better than the heavy litteral translation "Enfant sans nom" which means exactly what we want: a child who did not receive a name. It's not very pretty though, and I'd love to see better suggestions.

I'd love to see a French equivalent of "Unnamed infant" allowed in the First Name field for profiles in the French-speaking community. However the rule right now is that unnamed children should be called "Unnamed infant" so aren't we supposed to stick to it for the time being?

Comments

the other rule that applies is ''use their conventions''  so since we are dealing with French, we should not name a child by an English appellation.  ;)

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The translation for unnamed infant is L'enfant sans nom

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I agree with you, Danielle. I'm all for adapting terms to the language in use in the country we're working on, but... I've had mixed experiences about how that rule is understood.  ;)

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but French conventions do not list the child as ''enfant sans nom'', they list him as ''anonyme'' or just leave the space blank.  Anonyme in French has pretty much the same meaning as those given by Laura above, the term in French also has the meaning of  ''which does not yet have a name'', which is the case in point here.   https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/anonyme