can Biography/Biographie be coded as an exception for error code 811?

+13 votes
227 views

Hi! The profile of [[Guyon-54]] needs help, and I'll start on that right now. But... it's a bilingual profile, so it has double sections. I don't think "Sources (F)" is a good fix & you can't do 811 as a false error. Can it be coded that if there are Biography & Biographie headings, then it can have two sources heading?

(added quebecois tag since those profiles are often bilingual also)

edit: added acadian tag when I saw related question (requesting exception to 811 for acadian profiles) & templates (an answer to that question was to use a template that I don't find in WikiTree)

update: Guyon-54 cleanup completed.

WikiTree profile: Mathurin Guyon
in WikiTree Tech by Liz Shifflett G2G6 Pilot (358k points)
retagged by Maggie N.

an answer in the related question said adding the {{multilanguage}} template, such as

{{multilanguage|
English|
Swahili}}

would cause db_errors to give it a pass on 811.

With the recent review/restructuring of templates, is it ok to use that template?

This template never existed. It was just an idea for a solution..
ah - thanks. That explains why I couldn't find it in WikiTree.
"Son" Jacques should be removed unless documentation can be provided.
fixed error 670 for marriage
I also wish bilingual profiles could have different source sections. In some cases they may end up pointing to the same source, but the ability to put sources that are easier for a person who only speaks French to understand or for a person who only speaks English would or for a person who only speaks German would help make wikitree more international.
You can add another section

== Sources (Français) ==

Or you can make 2 subsections under sources

== Sources ==

=== Sources (English) ===

=== Sources (Français) ===

But you must have only one <reference /> in the profile.
Thanks Ales. I think that's a good solution.

For the sample profile, we'd already done the first section footnotes with [1] etc instead of <ref>s, but I think in future it would be logical to have

== Biographie ==

== Sources (Français) ==

== Biography ==

== Sources (English) ==

and very last .. um, Google Translate turns Footnotes into notes at the base of the page (in French), which is a bit much for a dual heading, so how about

== Références ~ References ==
<references />

(or vice versa if English bio is first)

Cheers, Liz

1 Answer

+3 votes
The idea of putting 2 sources sections doesn't necessarily work, since when you do in-line source references, they come out in sequence in sources numbering, and if the same source is used for multiple items, then it just repeats in numbering system (1, 1.2, 1.3 etc), and many translated bios have the same source supporting either version.

So,  supposedly direct ancestor for me, but again, no real sources that can be verified, have put a comment on why I think this.

On DB errors  throwing up bilingual sites as an error, maybe that should be simply removed from DB errors program?  Seems excessive to me, not actually an error, and there are tons and tons of profiles that are bilingual.
by Danielle Liard G2G6 Pilot (253k points)

Isnt it better that we get a common look and feel of profiles and also bilingual profiles so the Project Database Error can understand that this is bilingual?

Grouped reflists

To support multilanguage inline references a best practise on wikis are to group references and then generate separated references see Wikipedia Help:Footnotes

Maybe something for WIkiTree?

and an update. Guyon-54 was re-edited for db_error 811 (a week hasn't gone by, so the error's still listed). In re-editing the re-edit (it added "(F)" after a source heading - i still don't think that's a good solution)... Anyway, in re-editing the profile to have the French Biographie's footnotes inline <ref></ref> citations, I don't see the need for separate French/English Sources sections.

Danielle - what do you think? In this case, I think it's ok. If there were a lot of bulleted sources in both languages, sub-heds === Sources (Français) === and === Sources (English) === could be added below <references />

Maybe add the functions so that you can collapse sections inside WikiTree (hide/show)

If you just would like to read the english version collapse the French and vice versa....

We have it already for long profiles then you can collapse the TOC


Big pic

Profile Le_Maistre-5

Other candidates for hide/show are

  • Categories on a profile
  • All those big graphics that you are part of a project that maybe are interested for some people but add no value to the profile and is not rendering good on a mobile phone
  • Category pages
    • Hide/show if people add links/text on the category
Liz, I think it's simpler to put (F) or (E) at the end of  each source item  when entering them so a person can look at the ones they understand. Like <ref>Fichier (F)</ref> or <ref> book (E)</ref>

 I don't know that the reference tag will send things into the correct section if we put == Source French== ==Source English==

I know Claude Lambert does some fancy stuff with profiles with bibliography etc, but I'm not sure we have the manpower to do it with all profiles.

Magnus, not sure where you're going with your comment, it's not a question of what you want to read or not read, easy enough to scroll down a page, it's a question of DBerrors program throwing up bilingual profiles as errors, which is nonsensical to my mind.  Just the Filles du Roy for example are over 700 profiles that ideally should all be bilingual, their original language was mostly French (with at least 1 German woman thrown in there for good measure), but lots of cousins don't speak or read French, so translation is needed.  Easier to put 2 separate bios in one language each than to intermix them.
Sorry Danielle, I didn't mean two separate <references />. Also, can we go with (French).. um, (Français) or (English) in the <ref></ref>s? Instead of (F) or (E) - I have an aversion to abbreviations, having been confused too many times by abbreviations that weren't obvious (to me) & the person who used them no longer around to ask for clarification.

What I was suggesting was different Sources sections could be used when the bulleted list included references in both languages. But I don't think that's really needed.

Two bios with only inline sources - <ref>s - but no bulleted lists could have just the following:

== Biographie ==

xxx<ref>this reference (Français)</ref> and xxx<ref>this reference (English)</ref>

== Biography ==

xxx<ref>this reference (Français)</ref> and xxx<ref>this reference (English)</ref>

== Sources ==
<references />

If there's a need to separate a list of bulleted sources by language, that could be done using language-only subs:

== Biographie ==

xxx<ref>this reference (Français)</ref> and xxx<ref>with this reference (English)</ref>

== Biography ==

xxx<ref>this reference (Français)</ref> and xxx<ref>with this reference (English)</ref>

== Sources ==
<references />

=== Français ===
* Un Livre
* Un Autre Livre

=== English ===
* A Book
* Another Book

Hope that's clearer what I meant.

Cheers, Liz
sounds good to me Liz, particularly since you are correct, (F) could also stand for Finnish, so not clear.  ;)  We can see how it works out in real life once we've worked with it a bit, and amend as needed.  As long as DBerrors pgm gets fixed not to believe it's an error.

Magnus, not sure where you're going with your comment, it's not a question of what you want to read or not read, easy enough to scroll down a page 

Dont agree if you prefer to show one language version ==> that if this is implemented correct next time you  display a profile that language version will be shown and the other hidden

it's a question of DBerrors program throwing up bilingual profiles as errors

I understand that and the reason is that WikiTree has no standard saying this is a section using language xxx

One good way of adding structure in a Wiki is using templates ==> {{MultiLanguage}}

{{MultiLanguage|English}}

 

{{MultiLanguage|Frensch}}

Doing that 

  1. You can identify its multilanguage and understand it will have more Sources more Biography etc ==> no error should be produced
  2. You can do a state of the art user interface and hide and show sections. See WikiTree+ search form that has 21 sections you can show and hide

If you not go for the template solution why not steal the abbreviation from how Wikipedia is doing it. They use ISO 639-1 codes ==> is a standardized nomenclature used to classify languages

  • Frensch = fr
  • Finnish = fi
See also
 

 

Well, getting into personal preferences I think is a bit too much to add on right now to all the programming things that need fixing.

As far as adding templates, sounds good to me, although with the new button for picking a language that was implemented a short time ago, maybe that would be redundant?  Or they could make the button that picks a language automatically make the page bilingual, with English as second language.  Would save having to search for profiles that need a template.  I'll leave that aspect to the tech guys.

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