Procedure existing parentage with conflicting information.

0 votes

What is the correct procedure for changing a significant portion of a profile because of conflicting, well documented information?  I have noted several references on the profile linked below.  The profile in question is Arundel-32 and her daughter Champernon-1
 which all records point to a different mother for Champernon-1 besides those listed in Arundel-32 as sources.

WikiTree profile: Margaret Champernon
in Genealogy Help by Nae X G2G6 Mach 5 (54.5k points)

I notice on a lot of profiles that the standard Notice of Ambiguous Parentage has been used.  This is the wording:

"This profile has been edited with regard to parents in accordance with principles established by the European Aristocracy user-group. Medieval genealogy is not an exact science, and digital collaborative genealogy must therefore occasionally make choices where old-fashioned print-scholarship did not have to. The parents (or lack of parents) of the person described in this profile were decided upon in consultation with primary sources especially as collected in the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy’s Medieval Lands project."

Unfortunately, this standard language DOESN'T say what the resolution is.  If someone merges into the profile and adds parents to a profile that shoudn't have them, I don't know whether the parents are correct or were added erroneously.  An example is Robertian-7.  Although the Biography contains information about possible parents, even that doesn't say whether we are accepting accepting particular parents or just airing the controversy. It would be easier if the Notice said: "No parents are shown" or "we are currently accepting *** as the parents."

I suggest that the standard language be adjusted to say what the resolution is, i.e., which parents are correct or no parents.



Thanks for the response.  I am doing what I can to find documentation for this line, and the more I dig, the more the line is being revealed as very incorrect.  Even with well known sources, the information is just not documented in records and what is documented contradicts what we have listed.  As I said in an earlier post, I have reached out to several people who have written extensively on this subject, so we are all working together.  I think I am going to step back for a day or so and let my head stop spinning.  :)  Then perhaps I will be able to come at this a different way and have some definitive success.

I used the link that you provided and to sum up, they don't provide any guidelines, except that their goal is accuracy with documentation.  I think that the wording is nice on the paragraph, but very ambiguous and wordy.  Sounds like a project in and of itself.

With this profile, I am seeing at least five other Margaret Champernon Bodrugans out there linked to another five or so Otto, Otho, etc....because of variant spellings of either first and/or last names, which is understandable.  I am wondering how complex it would be to program into Wikitree to pull up all related names of a family (before a certain date, say 1700) when creating a profile.  Similiar to what it does when you do a surname search and there are none by that name, and the program gives you options/related last names?? Just a thought.

3 Answers

+1 vote
Best answer
If anybody is still working on this question, I've been doing a massive overhaul of the Champernoun family, using Ronny Bodine's 1999 research summaries at soc.genealogy.medieval.  He simply gave her name as "Joan," with no surname, and I think we should do the same.

Regarding the "Ferrers" possibility, Alexander Champernoun married a daughter of Martin Ferrers of Beer Ferrers, and it wouldn't surprise me if this is the mistaken origin of the claim thta Margaret's mother was a Ferrers.
by J S G2G6 Mach 9 (95.1k points)
selected by Vincent Piazza
0 votes

thanks for asking.  Assuming you have edit access to the profile, The practice I follow is to start the profile narrative with a section under the header of

== Disputed Parentage (or Spouse...) ==

l then explain the situation and cite the sources for the correct information AND I include links in the narrative to the incorrect parents.  Save the changes.  You'll still be on the edit page.  Then on the right hand side you'll see the parents listed. Click on "edit (parent)" and use the subsequent page to change the parent to the right one.

For profiles of people under 200 years old you will need to request to be on the Trusted List before doing the above.  

If the profile is protected you'll need to work with the profile managers to make the changes of parents.
by Jillaine Smith G2G6 Pilot (767k points)
Thanks so much Jillaine!  I have been sitting here pondering what to do because there is a significant tree after Margaret's profile, with the only documentation being from Ancestry trees as opposed to other extensive documentation.  I didn't want to step on toes, but I am trying to be as accurate as I can with information, albiet from other sources.  Much appreciated the quick response.
On a quick search, I can't find anything online that has a reliable source for either marriage. This needs a historian of the period.
You are right.  I reached out to one, and will wait till I hear back.  If you have any one you can recommend, please forward that information to me, or if you want to reach out, it would be appreciated!  Thanks.

I've no idea whether they might be able to help. Might be worth a try.

0 votes
the correct spelling is CHAMPERNOWNE. ...CHECK BURKE'S PEERAGE UNDER WILLIAM CHAMPERNOWNE MARRIED JOAN DE FERRERS IN 1274.  Joan de Ferrers, descended from Walkeline de Ferrers is Margaret's mother.
by C E G2G6 Mach 3 (36.5k points)
I'm not sure about that... "Champernowne" became the "correct" spelling of the name around the 16th century.  The Modbury line preferred "Champernoun," and before that it was anything goes, with the Latin "Campo Arnulfi" appearing frequently to spice things up.  I wouldn't rely on Burke's Peerage to establish correct spelling in the 13th century, unless they provide a direct quote from an original source.

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