Is this escutcheon OK for the House of Stewart/Stuart?

Question

I just uploaded it, having got it from Wikpedia:

 

http://www.wikitree.com/photo/png/European_Aristocrats_Project-20

Cf. the Wikipedia entry for the house:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_stuart

The alternative would be their royal seal, I suppose, but that's not really a symbol of the house. Thoughts?

Answer 1

Isn't the answer to consult the oracle?

http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/

There is no hurry, after all.

Comments

Certainly there's no hurry, but I'm not sure how useful the College of Arms would be, unless we wanted to ask them the very general question "What would the most identifiable symbol of the Clan/House of Stuart be?" As I understand it, arms are borne by individuals, and we'd have to pick an individual--but once we picked an individual, we could find his/her arms easily in Wikipedia vel sim. ;)

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I think that is just what you might ask. After all, they are in charge of all things heraldic in the UK and what they say goes.

Answer 2

I'm not sure of what you mean for the term of a house of the family "Stuart"  There is no such term as ... the house of Stuart meant a clan or ancestrial "House".  The Rotal Seal is the symbol of the Clan Stuart.  

I have lived in Scotland and the family clans are very important. I have never heard of Houses and I'm having a hard time understanding what your meaning is.

Sincerely,

M.

Comments

For WikiTree EuroAristo project purposes, houses and clans are pretty much the same thing. (Certainly when the Stuarts accede to the English throne, they can be termed a "house," at any rate.) For purposes of the EuroAristo project, we've deemed it helpful to have a single image to put on profiles of members of clans/houses, and I'm asking the advice of the WikiTree community on which symbol we should use for members of the clan/house of Stewart/Stuart.

It sounds like you're advising we use the royal seal. Which version of it would you suggest?

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As the seal itself is extinct, I would suggest using the Royal Seal as shown on your link on wikipedia.

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That's very generic, though, and goes with the country, rather than the family. As usual, I'll bow to consensus, but I'd like to see as much discussion as we can get, first, so I'm going to play devil's advocate.

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Clans and houses cannot be considered "pretty much the same thing" even in a EuroAristo Project.

A Clan ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_clan ) is based on a family name and has many branches whereas;

A House ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty ) is one branch of a family name that has acheived a position of power.

Answer 3

And I thought the Stewarts were part of the Scottish Clans Project, lol.

The Stewart  clan, like many other clans are composed of several branches (these branches are sometimes referred to as houses). One symbol would not be acceptable to everyone.

I think for the main (Royal line) it is fine to use the escutcheon you uploaded.

.

Comments

Thanks, Eugene!

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I agree Eugene, Thanks

Answer 4

I did a little more looking this AM and this link may be iof interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Steward_of_Scotland

The escutcheon was changed after the reign of the first stewart king, Robert II. 

Comments

Thanks, Eugene. That gives two to pick from, one of which (pre-1371) is the one I uploaded. I do like the 1371 version, though!

Answer 5

The answer is definately YES, on a Gold Shield a blue and white checkered Bar, Supporting the shield on either side are Crowned Rampant Lions. ( As displayed on the Royal Stardard off Scotland). on top of Shield a Helmet with a Red Plume. 

Answer 6

An alternative might be the Clan Stewart badge.  

Answer 7

The use of Royal seals and Coats of Arms (C.o.A.) must be with care as legal repercussions could ensue.

They are strictly attributable to one person or one family, with Royal seals and C.o.A.'s having similar rules within Royal Houses.

I have been working on the Categories: Clan Stewart | Clan Stewart of Appin | Clan Stuart of Bute | House of Stewart | House of Stuart  and have shown many different C.o.A and there are many more described in the Heraldry of the Stewarts by George Harvey Johnston.

With respect to the answer from Mary Hammond there is no such thing as Clan Stuart (perhaps a spelling mistake?), there is a recognised Royal House of Stuart similar to the House of Hanover or Windsor. 

Also there are only three "recognised clans" bearing the name Stewart/Stuart the "Clan Stewart", "The Stewarts of Appin" and "The Stuarts of Bute".

Have a look at the above mentioned Categories, they have changed and contain a lot of useful references.

 

 

Answer 8

Heraldry holds a great interest for me and further Study of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/house of stuart which states Stewart of Stewart for these arms, is incorrect as the Coat of Arms (C.o.A.) shown as Stewart of Stewart, is in fact the arms for the High Stewards of Scotland. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Steward_of_Scotland this is far clearer. 

So the escutchen you propose to use would be fine for the House of Stewart (early Scottish Royalty) but not for the House of Stuart (Later Royalty of Great Britain) As yet I cannot see a suitable C.o.A. Perhaps you could use those of Henry Stuart Lord Darnley as the father of the first Stuart King.

Answer 9

Just found this escutcheon (C.o.A.) on Line. Should be suitable the job!!

 

http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/stuart_16.html