Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one?

+110 votes
36.8k views

One of the stated goals of the Edward III Project is to develop a list of proven gateway ancestors to Edward III.  This post goes a long way towards that goal.

Below is a list of 17th century new world immigrants with a recognized descent from Edward III, king of England. The list was kindly provided by Douglas Richardson, author of the Royal Ancestry series.  Links to all of them can be found on this page.

This list currently is 70 individuals representing 55 different families. Of the 70 individuals, 32 settled in the Southern Colonies, 27 in the New England Colonies, and 11 were part of the Quaker migration to the Middle Colonies.

Use the Relationship Finder to find if you have a connection to Edward III, king of England (Plantagenet-70). Does your gateway ancestor appear below?  If not, we will work to prove or disprove your connection.

Do you have a gateway ancestor from a population group other than American colonial immigrants (e.g. Australian, South African, European, etc.)? Post them here or in a separate G2G post and we will create new categories and new lists to track them. The line must be very well documented.

The List of 17th Century New World Immigrants

Barbara Aubrey, John Barclay, John Bevan, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George, Giles & Robert Brent, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, St. Leger Codd, Elizabeth & Thomas Coytemore, William Crymes, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, Robert Drake, Rowland Ellis, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Patrick Houston, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Agnes Mackworth, Oliver Manwaring, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, Henry & William Randolph, George Reade, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Mary Johanna Somerset, Samuel & William Torrey, Margaret Touteville, John West, Hawte Wyatt.

Some confirmed additions:

William Asfordby, Charles Barnes, Marmaduke Beckwith, William Farrar, Elizabeth Mansfield, Anne Mansfield, John Mansfield, Robert Spotswood, Robert Rose, Margaret Toshach

in Genealogy Help by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (258k points)
edited by Joe Cochoit
All three of those are gateway ancestors to medieval English ancestry.  I do not think any of them have a line to Edward III (which is what we are looking for).
Yes. Frances Deighton is my gateway ancestor. She is my 10th great grandmother.

Edward III is the 21th great grandfather of Rachael.

Frances Deighton is the gateway ancestor. She is my 10th great greandmother.

My husband, [[Strutt-262|David Strutt]] is a direct descendant of Edward III, Plantagenet-70.

20. David Strutt, 19. Audrey Lett, 18. Pittman Lett, 17. Florence Gertrude Ferguson, 16. George Ferguson, 15. John Ferguson, 14. Helen Stewart 13, Robert Stewart, 12 Alexander Stewart, 11. Alexander Stewart, 10. Janet Stewart 9. Anne Campbell, 8. Colin Campbell, 7. Annas Campbell 6. Colin Campbell, 5. Mariote Stewart, 4. John Stewart, 3. Joan Beaufort 2. John Beaufort 1. John Plantagenet, 0.  Edward III. I only just discovered this so will have to to more DNA checking to prove it.
These are coming in much faster than I can research and answer.  I hope to get to all of them. Any help appreciated.

Anna, please post your line to the new G2G question:

Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one? (Round 3)

Joe, Will a Gateway category for New France be added? As my gateway  to  Plantagenet-70 comes thru Anne Couvent.

Angela Boyer Cortner

Boyer-3525

I think there is a legitimate issue with the connection between Francois de Joyeuse and Robert de Joyeuse.

Francois says in a 1733 notarial act that he is the son of Robert de Joyeuse, but offers no proof of it. To me that's problematic and Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky fail to provide any proof besides Francois saying it.Medieval Lands has a great explanation as to why the connection is suspicious and unsubstantiated. 

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/champorret.htm#FrancoisJoyeusedied1556B

Thanks Darrell, the link  contains  so much interesting research on this family line.

Hoping someone has access to any missing documents that would help.
As of now nobody talks about it, but I would love to know more and examine the records myself. Unfortunately countless times in the past people would go from embellishing their family to outright publishing connections that were fantasy. I would hate to see the Anne Couvent line be perpetually duplicated if it may not be correct at this de Joyeuse point. Unfortunately that is also the connection (Francois to supposed father Robert) that establishes her gateway ancestor status. We need some help in France to answer the nagging questions!

Darrell

157 Answers

+15 votes

I found several listed.  I tried to double check that none of my "gateway" ancestors was already listed here by someone else. Sorry if I'm sending duplicate information.  This first gateway ancestor is John Norton.  Of course it would be exciting if he could be proven, but better disproven than left in doubt!

8. Benjamin is the son of John Hickox [unknown confidence] 
9. John is the son of Elizabeth (Plumb) Hickock [unknown confidence] 
10. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Norton) Plumb [unknown confidence]
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Norton I [confident] 
12. John is the son of Richard Norton [confident] 
13. Richard is the son of Dionisia (Cholmeley) Norton [unknownconfidence] 
14. Denice is the daughter of John (Cholmeley) Cholmondeley [confident] 
15. John is the son of Dionisia (Phillips) Cholmeley [confident] 
16. Dionisia is the daughter of Elizabeth (Griffith) Phillips [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Jane (Stradling) Griffith [unknown confidence] 
18. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Stradling Esq [confident] 
19. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling [confident] 
20. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling [confident] 
21. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort [confident] 
22. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 
 

by Bertram Sluys G2G6 Mach 3 (37.3k points)
The parents of Dionisia Phillips look like a sticking point.
Could you elaborate on Dionisia Phillips' parents being a sticking point?  People who have this connection are likely to consider it a very important part of their genealogy, so I wouldn't want to disconnect the parents without precise proof against it.

I think what RJ would mean by a sticking point would be that it lacks precise proof. The aim is to have precise proof of connections of course and not to connect everyone until we have proof they are not connected. 

Whether to disconnect or not depends on the case, and can be discussed. Some connections are likely but not proven, some are uncertain, some are impossible.

OK.  That makes sense to me.
What evidence is there as to who her father was. There is none on her profile. Burke apparently doesn't name him and it's a common surname.
The present father seems to have acquired a whole variety of children that aren't mentioned in his bio. They are born all over the place ( including the remarkable Frances.b 1530 'castle, McPherson, Kansas, USA) His profile is also basically unsourced (other than by also unsourced trees) There is a geni profile which does rather better in presenting evidence .It doesn't include a daughter Dionesia either.(Sorry missed above answer, mobile phone is not an efficient tool for me!)
I connect to Henry Randolph with a break in the line at Sarah Randolph who married a Barksdale. I have not researched this line.
+14 votes

I'll give just one more possibility right now - Thomas Judd..  I'm certain there are more connections - but I don't know if they can be verified.

 

1. Sarah is the daughter of Sarson Lothrop Judd [unknown confidence] 
2. Sarson is the son of Asahel Judd [unknown confidence] 
3. Asahel is the son of Thomas Judd [unknown confidence] 
4. Thomas is the son of Thomas Judd [unknown confidence] 
5. Thomas is the son of Samuel Judd [unknown confidence] 
6. Samuel is the son of Thomas Judd [unknown confidence] 
7. Thomas is the son of Katherine (Norwood) Judd [unknown confidence] 
8. Katherine is the daughter of Katherine (Throckmorton) Norwood [unknownconfidence] 
9. Katherine is the daughter of Robert Throckmorton [unknown confidence] 
10. Robert is the son of Katherine (Vaux) Throckmorton [unknown confidence] 
11. Katherine is the daughter of Elizabeth (Fitzhugh) Parr [unknownconfidence] 
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Alice (Neville) FitzHugh [unknownconfidence] 
13. Alice is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG [unknown confidence] 
14. Richard I is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
15. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
16. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 
 

by Bertram Sluys G2G6 Mach 3 (37.3k points)
This line is going to fail at Katherine (Norwood) Judd who was not a daughter of Henry Norwood and Katherine Throckmorten.

 

(To help me find sources later:  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/2LantkI3wpo )
Thanks for the search for sources.  Proof against a suggested connection is very important to me.
+14 votes
My recently arrived newcomers were Northends/Nortons (Rowley, Massachusetts by way of Yorkshire), Lamberts (Rowley, from Holme, Yorkshire), Stickneys, Osborns and Youngs (Mass/CT).  I am a direct descendant of Edward III, according to the relationship finder.  See Lambert-1971, Northend-3.  Let me know if you think this is questionable!  Thank you.

Alycia
by Alycia Keating G2G6 (9.1k points)
I get the Northends a few times on the Relationship Finder.  It's interesting because I have recognized Gateways 3 from maternal gp and 1 from maternal gm.
+15 votes

Here is my line broken into two to fall within max char allow:  

1. Alycia is the daughter of [father] [unknown confidence] 
2. [Private] is the son of Herbert James Keating Sr. confidence] 
3. Herbert is the son of Caroline Augusta Mildeberger [confident] 
4. Carrie is the daughter of Hannah Maria Van Blarcom [confident] 
5. Hannah is the daughter of Jane Maria (Young) Van Blarcom [unknown confidence] 
6. Jane is the daughter of James Young [unknown confidence] 
7. James is the son of Elizabeth (Osborne) Young [confident] 
8. Elizabeth is the daughter of Jonathan Osborne [unknown confidence] 
9. Jonathan is the son of Jane (Lambert) Osborn [unknown confidence] 
10. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Lambert [unknown confidence] 
11. Thomas is the son of Edna (Northend) Stickney [confident] 
12. Edna is the daughter of Ezekiel Northend [confident] 
 

by Alycia Keating G2G6 (9.1k points)

continued...

13. Ezekiel is the son of John Norton [confident] 
14. John is the son of Dionisia (Cholmeley) Norton [unknown confidence] 
15. Denice is the daughter of John (Cholmeley) Cholmondeley [confident] 
16. John is the son of Dionisia (Phillips) Cholmeley [confident] 
17. Dionisia is the daughter of Elizabeth (Griffith) Phillips [unknown confidence] 
18. Elizabeth is the daughter of Jane (Stradling) Griffith [unknown confidence] 
19. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Stradling Esq [confident] 
20. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling [confident] 
21. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling [confident] 
22. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort [confident] 
23. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
24. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]t

Alycia,  What is the evidence that Ezekial Northend is the son of John Norton?

And what is the evidence that John Norton of Yorkshire is the son of JOhn Norton and Dionisia Cholmeley of Bedfordshire.  This whole section is just made up.
I got the info from Wikitree, and it appeared to be all right; I will revisit.
"Ezekiel Northend, son of Mr. John Northend of Ripplingham, Rowley, England, was born in Yorkshire, England, about 1622; probably came with the reverend Ezekiel Rodgers 1639; then a minor. He married 1 Dec. 1648, Edna, widow of Richard Bailey; died 7 Sept. 1698. His will, dated 8 Feb. 1698, mentions wife, Edna, died 3 Feb. 1705-6. The letter from his brother, Anthony Northend of Beverly, England, is given below, showing some if his relations in England.* His sister, Widow Margaret Cross (50 ½), married John Palmer, and his sister Alice married Richard Holmes. The will of Mr. John Northend of Ripplingham, Rowley, England, is dated 8 Oct. 1625, and mentions wife, Elizabeth, to be executrix (she died before the will was proved); children John, Anthony, Alice, Elizabeth, Margaret, Ezekiel and Jane or Joana (married William Stoute); “to Ezekiel Rodgers, clerk” and brother Robert Northend, Lord of the Manor of Little Weeton, in trust, 20 acres of meadow and 24 acres of wiidland, “part & parcel of said Manor and o be sold toward the raising of portions for my younger children” (Yorkshire wills). "Early Settlers of Rowley, Massachusetts" page 257 "Early Settlers of Rowley, Massachusetts" page 256 Immigrant-England Ezekiel Northend (From Find A Grave) Posted 26 Feb 2015 by HBWaves Birth: 1622 - Rowley, East Riding of Yorkshire, England Death: Sep. 7, 1698 - Rowley, Essex County, Massachusetts, USA In 1677, Ezekiel owned four freeholds and in 1691 paid the highest tax in Rowley, £10, at which time he was styled corporal; was a prominent man; on many committees; selectman in 1662, 1669, 1691, probably other years. Gave to each of his daughters from 100 to 150 acres of land upon their marriage. Married on Dec. 1, 1648, at Rowley, Edith/Edna Halstead, widow of Richard Bailey. John Northend, lord of the manor of Hunsley; Will 8 Oct., 1625, proved 19 Nov., 1625; wife Elizabeth executrix; to the Revd Ezekiel Rogers and brother Robert Northend, in trust, twenty acres of meadow and twenty-four acres of woodland in the parish of South Cave, "part and parcell of said manor, for and toward the satisfaction of my debts which my personal estate in goods and chattel Is shall not extend unto and for and towards the raiseing of portions for my younger children hereafter named, Anthonie Northend, Ezechiell Northend, my sonnes, and Elizabeth Northend, Alice Northend, Margaret Northend and Joane Northend my daughters, to be equally divided between them.” Registry of Exchequer Courts York.~ In the above references we have graces of the family and ancestral home of Mr. Ezekiel Northend, the progenitor of the well-known family of this name in Essex Co., Massachusetts, who is said to have been born in Hunsley or Weeton Parva in Rowley, Yorkshire, England, 1621-22, and to have come over to New England where he found a new home in Rowley, Massts, a few years after its settlement by the Revd Ezekiel Rogers (already named) and his associates in 1639. His uncle Robert (mentioned in the above will) was lord of the manor of Weeton Parva and had a son Jeremiah who came to New England in 1638 with the Revd Mr. Rogers, being then twelve years of age, remained nine years and returned to England and was buried at Rowley, April 14, 1702, as appears by a certificate of the rector of Rowley. While in New England he lived, for a portion of the time, at least, in the family of Mr. William Bellingham, brother to the Deputy Governor, Richard Bellingham, and was spoken of as “cousin” by Ezekiel Northend in a deposition about Mr. Bellingham’s estates. Ezekiel Northend’s sister Margaret became the wife of John Palmer, who also came to Rowley, New England, and in his will of 23 Aug., 1693, proved July, 1695, appointed his brother Northend one of the overseers to its execution. Gleanings from English Records about New England Families, communicated by James A. Emmerton and Henry F. Waters, Essex Institute Historical Collections, Vol XVII, Salem, Mass; 1880; 386 pages, pgs 85-89 Family links: Spouse: Edith Halstead Northend (1626 - 1705) Children: Sarah Northend Hale (1661 - 1732)* Ezekiel Northend (1666 - 1732)* Ezekiel Northend "

  Amos Everett, Blodgette, Jewett, Brainerd, Early Settlers of Rowley, Mass,Camden, Maine: Picton Press of Camden, Maine, 1933.  pp 256-7
and

West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812
It looks like the change of name from North end to Norton is one problem.
John Norton doesn't seem to be the same person as John Northend.There are two people conflated into one.
This site seems to be a good place to start research in this family since it cites and quotes from  records used.http://www.emery.research.pasttracker.com/john-anthony_000Northend/northend_ancestry.htm
Oh poop!  I know there is a pony in here somewhere lol
Thank you for the link Helen.  So good news and bad news Alycia, the Norton connection is going to be broken.

However, the Northend line (without studying the website) seems reasonably well researched.  You have some new (and correct) ancestors to enter.
Ah well, it was nice for a couple of days being the ggdaughterx33 of John o' Gaunt.  I'll have to settle for being a cousin of sorts lol.  Thanks, Joe, it's always better to know for sure!  All the best

Alycia
+14 votes

This is one of 2 Norwood connections shown on Wikitree for me.  Francis Norwood is not listed as a gateway descendant of Edward III on the list.  It's possible his listed father Thomas is not correct as Francis is not listed with a precise birth or baptism date.  Could anyone give me more information on this Francis Norwood's ancestry?

1. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Norwood) Lothrop [unknown confidence] 
2. Elizabeth is the daughter of Stephen Norwood [unknown confidence] 
3. Stephen is the son of Francis Norwood Sr. [unknown confidence] 
4. Francis is the son of Thomas Norwood [unknown confidence] 
5. Thomas is the son of Richard Norwood [unknown confidence] 
6. Richard is the son of William Norwood [confident] 
7. William is the son of Katherine (Throckmorton) Norwood [confident] 
8. Katherine is the daughter of Robert Throckmorton [unknown confidence] 
9. Robert is the son of Katherine (Vaux) Throckmorton [unknown confidence] 
10. Katherine is the daughter of Elizabeth (Fitzhugh) Parr [unknown confidence] 
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Alice (Neville) FitzHugh [unknown confidence] 
12. Alice is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG [unknownconfidence] 
13. Richard I is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
14. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
15. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 
 

by Bertram Sluys G2G6 Mach 3 (37.3k points)
Francis Norwood was not a son of Thomas Norwood, and needs to be disconnected.  His origins are unknown.
I have disconnected his parents.  There were already two years worth of discussions, and Y-DNA evidence disproving the connection.
Could you please send me the thread of discussion about this?  I do agree you're correct - however, both Francis' and Thomas' profiles should have an explanation on them as to why their connection is incorrect.
+15 votes
I think my 10th great grandfather Constant Southworth-111 and his brother Thomas Southworth-112 should both be on the list. Or am I missing the Boat as they and their mother did?

Thanks,

Michael
by Living Joslin G2G6 Mach 1 (15.5k points)

This one is the best possibility so far, but it is in the Unproven category.  See the notes page of his father Edward.  We need evidence that Edward of Leiden is the same as Edward of London:

"Edward Southworth's parents are uncertain because there's not enough evidence Edward of London is the same person as Edward of Leiden (aka Eduwaert Sodtwaert) - see the note in Weis, p. 14, Line 9 #41. Apparently this is also covered in Mayflower Quarterly 88 (1992): 10-15, which I have been unable to locate."

I may try to get that Mayflower Quarterly tonight.

You mentioned a Bea Wijma, in another response as someone who worked directly with the records from Leiden. Do you think she could provide any input?

Thanks,  Michael
If you got up to the top I mentioned Constant and Thomas in the first comment and since they were the sons of Edward Southworth, brother of Thomas Southworth, Bea helpfully posted records of marriages in Leiden, incl. Thomas was a witness to Edward's marriage to Alice Carpenter.

+1 on missing the boat - if Edward had done us the service of waiting to die on the Mayflower we'd know a heck of a lot more about this particular Southworth family. As I've mentioned before this family lost most of its wealth through recucansy fines, has a martyred Catholic Saint, then these two younger sons become Separatists at the same time the Samelsbury heirs decided they needed cash and were conventional Anglicans.

The basic problem is summarized in your quote above: we can't connect the Southworth merchants living in London with the Southworth day-laborers in Leiden. If you can summarize that Mayflower Quarterly article that would be a helpful addition to all these Southworth profiles.
Last night, I went and obtained the article:

French, Robert L. "Who Was Edward Southworth of Leyden?" in The Mayflower Quarterly vol. 88 (1992):10-15.

It is the article which basically broke the Southworth line, and is the reason the line is not accepted by Richardson or anyone else on the SGM newsgroup.  In the next day or two, when I find the time, I will write a summary of the relevant articles.  I want to make sure I understand all of the issues.
I'm curious what the explanation was for the correct Southworth of Samelsbury arms Alice Carpenter brought to New England..
She didn't.

I started a new G2G topic for the Southworths. along with writing up a discussion of the problems.

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/366945/alleged-royal-ancestry-of-edward-southworth 

+14 votes
Just for fun I ran the report and it says I am the 20th great granddaughter of Edward..who knew? Although doubtful because none of my names seem to match the list of 17 unless I am missing something obvious. Which in my current state is quite possible. And my Dyer/Hopkins lines are in question.
by Living Lykins G2G6 Mach 1 (12.8k points)

Placing your line here so I can check it later:

1. Jenn is the daughter of Frederick Waugh Lykins DNA confirmed 
2. Frederick is the son of Charles Burton Lykins [confident] 
...
8. Gardner is the son of Francis Hopkins [unknown confidence] 
9. Francis is the son of Joseph Hopkins [unknown confidence] 
10. Joseph is the son of William Hopkins [unknown confidence] 
11. William is the son of Elizabeth (Dudley) Hopkins [uncertain] 
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert Dudley [unknown confidence] 
13. Robert is the son of John Dudley [confident] 
14. John is the son of Richard Sutton Dudley [confident] 
15. Richard is the son of Thomas Dudley [confident] 
16. Thomas is the son of Matilda (Clifford) Sutton [confident] 
17. Maud is the daughter of Thomas Clifford [confident] 
18. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [confident] 
19. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [unknown confidence] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [unknown confidence] 
21. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident] 
22. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Thank you,I tried but it said I went past the charactor limit.

The line breaks at Co

 

Sorry this was meant for another post,I thought I deleted it.sorry for the extra reply.

+13 votes

While I assume he's not on the list because he was an 18th cent immigrant (arrived in Virginia in 1710) Gov Alexander Spotswood appears to be a descendant of Edward III. He's Robert E Lee's connection to the Plantagenets & I'm pretty sure we can switch 9 and 10 to confident. 

1. Alexander is the son of Robert Spotswood [confident] 
2. Robert is the son of Bethia (Morrison) Spotswood [confident] 
3. Bethia is the daughter of Helenor (Maule) Morrison [confident] 
4. Eleanor is the daughter of William Maule [confident] 
5. William is the son of Isabel (Arbuthnot) Maule [confident] 
6. Isabel is the daughter of Jean (Stewart) Arbuthnot [confident] 
7. Jean is the daughter of John Stewart [confident] 
8. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident] 
9. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [unknown confidence] 
10. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
11. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

by Kirk Hess G2G6 Mach 7 (71.8k points)
Excellent Kirk.  I agree this line is sound and all connections should be marked confident.  Every step occurs in Royal Ancestry.  I will add Robert Spotswood to the list (the first one).
+14 votes
William Needham-234

     If "the line must be very well documented", then the connection is already proven, so what is the purpose of this whole project?
by Dan Sparkman G2G6 Mach 2 (25.5k points)
edited by Dan Sparkman
  1. Confirm for people well-documented and well-proven lines.
  2. Identify and correct problem areas in wikitree
  3. Prove previously unrecognized gateway ancestors (Richardson isn't infallible and new discoveries are made).
  4. Create a list of proven gateway ancestors as a tool for future research.

1. William is the son of Prudence (Peck) Needham [unknown confidence] 
2. Prudence is the daughter of John Peck [confident] 
3. John is the son of John Peck [unknown confidence] 
4. John is the son of John Peck Esquire [unknown confidence] 
5. John is the son of Richard Peck [unknown confidence] 
6. Richard is the son of Joan (Harrington) Peck [unknown confidence] 
7. Joan is the daughter of Matilda (Clifford) Sutton [unknown confidence] 
8. Maud is the daughter of Thomas Clifford [confident] 
9. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [confident] 
10. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [unknown confidence] 
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [unknown confidence] 
12. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident] 
13. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the Peck line is not accepted and supposedly Douglas Richardson has disproved it.  I do not yet know the details.

It is always concerning when a PGM immigrant has no sources and no real biography.

1. Rachel (Unknown) is the daughter of William Needham [unknown confidence] 
2. William is the son of Prudence (Peck) Needham [unknown confidence] 
3. Prudence is the daughter of John Peck [confident] 

Before I get going to much on this, do you know of any evidence that any of this is correct.  The wife of Edward Spalding is Rachel Unknown which from what I can tell is correct.  Also her supposed father William Needham of Braintree is stated to have no children.  This line will be broken right there unless there is some evidence as to the parents of Rachel.

Next, what is the evidence that William Needham of Braintree, is the son of William Needham and Prrudence Peck?  I believe his ancestry is unknown.

William Needham of Braintree disconnected as the father Rachel (Unknown) Spaulding.  By his will, he clearly died without issue,
The Peck line is based on postings by Bill Arnold to SGM in 2007.  It was soundly rejected as incorrect.  It is going to take some real work to untangle what has gotten into wikitree.
+15 votes

I don't see William Farrar, a gateway ancestor, on the list.  Would you please check this lineage?

12. William is the son of William Farrar [confident] 
13. William is the son of Cecily (Kelke) Farrer [confident] 
14. Cecily is the daughter of William Kelke [unknown confidence] 
15. William is the son of Christopher Kelke [unknown confidence] 
16. Christopher is the son of Elizabeth (de la See) Kelke [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Wentworth) de la See [unknown confidence] 
18. Elizabeth is the daughter of Mary (Clifford) Wentworth [unknown confidence] 
19. Maria is the daughter of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [unknown confidence] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [unknown confidence] 
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [unknown confidence] 
22. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident] 
23. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

by Kerry Larson G2G6 Pilot (234k points)
Yes, I agree he should absolutely be on the list.  Second accepted addition now.  I have emailed Douglas Richardson to see if he has a comment.
Fantastic.  Thanks very much for your very helpful work.

Mansfields are also awol - mentioned higher up the thread. 

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/362357/edward-iii-project-gateway-ancestors-do-you-have-one?show=365282#a365282

3 immigrants, Anne, Elizabeth, John.

 

Lightfoots connected now, thanks Liz.

 

Also Asfordby.  Not the RF line.  Better line:

1. William is the son of Alice (Wolley) Asfordby [unknown confidence]
2. Alice is the daughter of Anne Leeming [unknown confidence]
3. Anne is the daughter of Anne Kelke [unknown confidence]
4. Anne is the daughter of Christopher Kelke [unknown confidence]
5. Christopher is the son of Christopher Kelke [unknown confidence]
6. Christopher is the son of Christopher Kelke [unknown confidence]
7. Christopher is the son of Elizabeth (de la See) Kelke [unknown confidence]
8. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Wentworth) de la See [unknown confidence]
9. Elizabeth is the daughter of Mary (Clifford) Wentworth [unknown confidence]
10. Maria is the daughter of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [unknown confidence]
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [unknown confidence]
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [unknown confidence]
13. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident]

William Asfordby and the Mansfields both look good.  Added.
+14 votes

Found another one: John Herbert, grandson of Edward, 1st Lord Herbert of Cherbury. His story regarding his emigration appears fishy to me.

1. John is the son of Mary (Egerton) Herbert [unknown confidence] 
2. Mary is the daughter of Frances (Stanley) Egerton [unknown confidence] 
3. Frances is the daughter of Ferdinando Stanley [unknown confidence] 
4. Ferdinando is the son of Henry Stanley KG KB [unknown confidence] 
5. Henry is the son of Edward Stanley KG [unknown confidence] 
6. Edward is the son of Thomas Stanley [unknown confidence] 
7. Thomas is the son of George (Stanley) de Stanley KG, KB [unknown confidence] 
8. George is the son of Eleanor (Neville) Stanley [unknown confidence] 
9. Eleanor is the daughter of Richard (Neville) de Neville KG [unknown confidence] 
10. Richard I is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
11. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
12. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

by Kirk Hess G2G6 Mach 7 (71.8k points)

https://archive.org/stream/herbertinengland00walt#page/n13/

Not a junk book.  But doesn't try to offer any actual evidence or argument that John Herbert of Virginia is the same person as the 2nd Baron's son.

Problemette - she has the parents marrying in 1614, but Complete Peerage says 19 Nov 1627

http://www.thepeerage.com/p12902.htm#i129015

Why would she do that?

Why does Wikipedia not give a list of children?

 

Sidney Lee's DNB article on this creation of the title says John's supposed parents Richard Herbert and Mary Egerton had two sons Edward and Henry, and 4 da.; Florence or Florentina who m. a cousin Richard Herbert of Dolguog and Frances m. William Brown of Weston.

However, the source The Montgomeryshire collections. v.7 1874. says they had 4 sons, naming only Edward and Henry. This particular volume is about 'Herbertiana'.

The source that RJ posted makes it clear that John was well known to his family in England, inherited a very modest sum from his grandfather in 1648 and was living under an alias until the restoration. John Herbert I son John II had children, his brother Richard apparently didn't, willing property to their half-brother Thomas Willoughby, who is currently a gateway ancestor. She doesn't name John II's children other than they were orphans living with a Henry Dale.

 

Will of The Honorable Edward Lord Herbert of Cherbury  verifies what is written on John Herberts profile.

PROB 11/205/405 prob  granted 5 Oct 1648   name misstranscribed on Ancestry as Dnd Edward Henbert  (had to search by prob date)

mentions

‘dearly, beloved grandsonne Edward Herbert eldest sonne  of my sonne and heire Collonell Richard Herbert

Item I doe give and bequeathe unto my said two grandchildren Frances  and Florence Herbert two small baggs of old gold, each bagg conteyning one hundred and twentie pounds to be divided amongst them part and part like so as they dispose not hereof before their respecive marriage…

Item I have the summe of two hundred pounds in new fold in one other bagg. I doe give the summe  of eightie pounds of the said summe of two hundred in new gold to my grandsonne John Herbert and the rest residue and remainder of the said summe being one hundred and twentie pounds I doe give the some to be divided amongst my grandchildren not before named and laid out for their best avvantage[s] by my executors

Also mentioned,  daughter Beatrice, second son Captain Edward Herbert, daughter in law ‘the Lady Mary’

(I think that he also says that parliament owes him money amounting to above £12500 . He asks that £2,500 of it be remitted to his son Richard to pay his fine for  delinquency.)

NB the sum was £80 not 80lbs of gold as  indicated on the profile.

Will of Richard Lord Herbert Baron of Chirbury 

PROB 11/248/42 :02 July 1655 (indexed on Ancestry as Lord Richard Buron !)

This  appears to be son Richard's  will. Once more its a long one and I've only skimmed it for names  but I can't find a John Herbert. (really needs a careful transcription)

 

There is a lot about land held in trust,  his wife the Lady  Mary is the main beneficiary during her lifetime,followed by son Edward and his wife Ann daughter of Sir Thomas Middleton, His daughters and younger sons receive  bequests. The daughters are not named but the younger  sons are named as Henry and Thomas.

Will of Dame Mary Herbert of Cherbury,

PROB 11/294/405 01 August 1659  (ancestry indexed as Dame Mary Herbert ,Cherbury and Castle Hands)

She mentions only her daughters Arabella and Florentia. Arabella was under age and  unmarried  and Florentia (married to a Richard Herbert) was  made guardian.

Will of Henry Lord Herbert of Cherbury

PROB 11/405/11 06 May 1691 (Ancestry Dni Henry Herbert)

Wife Lady Katherine.

Leaves money intrust(to raise £6000 apiece for  sisters Arabella and Alice at the day of their marriage...surely these sisters were in their 30s by then )

Heir   was 'kinsman' Francis Herbert of Bromfield  Shropshire and to heirs male. This was I think Florentia's son. )  In default to  George Herbert, brother of Francis, then to Charles Herbert  of Aston, then to Arthur Herbert Earle of Torrington

Will of Florentia Herbert, Widow of Oakley Park, Shropshire

PROB 11/420/135 15 May 1694  (indexed as Florentia Herbert on Ancestry)

Mentions daug Florentia(??) dau Mary(___),sister Arabella, sister Alice, sons George and Francis.

So Richard's children included, Edward, John, Henry, Thomas, Frances, Florentia, Arabella and Alice  But the only mention( I found) of John is in his grandfather's will.

Could not find will of Edward died 1678

See also 'The Peerage' (Debrett?) which suggests John died young and includes the above children as in the wills

 

Thanks for all the will summaries. I think he has the wrong parents.  Cracroft's Peerage has a pedigree for this family and has the John Herbert who was the son of Richard Herbert d. young which is supported by the current DNB article.

Maybe Edward Herbert's 2nd son Edward had a son John. Lord Herbert also wrote an autobiography (starts on p. 323), p. 329 says at the time of writing his only living children were Richard, Edward and Beatrice.

+13 votes

Edward III is the 19th great grandfather of Walter

1. Walter is the son of Walter Pack Sr. DNA confirmed
2. Walter is the son of Winnie Henderson Pack DNA confirmed
3. Winnie is the son of Samuel John Tilden Pack DNA confirmed
4. Samuel is the son of Rhoda Ann Elizabeth (Cooper) Pack DNA confirmed
5. Rhoda is the daughter of Alexander Cooper DNA confirmed
6. Alexander is the son of Tabitha (Willis) Cooper DNA confirmed
7. Tabitha is the daughter of Henry George Willis Jr. DNA confirmed
8. Henry is the son of Henry Willis Sr. DNA confirmed
9. Henry is the son of Esther (Brinton) Willis DNA confirmed
10. Esther is the daughter of Ann (Bagley) Brinton DNA confirmed
11. Ann is the daughter of Edward Bagley [unknown confidence]
12. Edward is the son of Ann Tomlinson [unknown confidence]
13. Ann is the daughter of Edward Sutton [unknown confidence]
14. Edward is the son of Edward Sutton [unknown confidence]
15. Edward is the son of John Sutton [unknown confidence]
16. John VII is the son of Cicely (Willoughby) Sutton [unknown confidence]
17. Cecilia is the daughter of Joan (Strangeways) Berkeley [unknown confidence]
18. Jane is the daughter of Catherine (Neville) Mowbray [unknown confidence]
19. Catherine is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident]
20. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence]
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
<!-- it's the last --> This makes Edward III the 19th great grandfather of Walter.

by Andrea Pack G2G6 Mach 5 (57.1k points)

Hi Andrea,

 

Thank you for pointing this line out.  This line was disproved in an article in The American Genealogist in 1996.  I have adjusted the line to match the published research and the line is now broken.

It was once believed that John Bagley had married Ann Tomlinson, an illegitimate daughter of Edward Sutton, 5th Baron Dudley.  This was based on a lease that John Bagley, Robert Dudley and George Guest had received from Lord Dudley.  Robert Dudley was a known illegitimate son Lord Dudley, and George Guest was the husband of an illegitimate daughter.  Elizabeth Tomlinson, the known mistress of Lord Dudley by whom he had 11 children, left money in her will to Edward and Dudley Bagley.

The assumption then was that Edward Bagley had also married an illegitimate daughter of Lord Dudley, thus explaining both the lease and the bequest by Elizabeth Tomlinson.  However, Charles Hanson showed by a more careful reading of the will that Edward Bagley had not married a daughter of Elizabeth Tomlinson, but had in fact married her sister.  Therefore, the descent through Edward Sutton, Lord Dudley is broken.

The American Genealogist vol. 71, no. 1 (January 1996): 36-48.  . "The Ancestry of William and Ann (Bagley) Brinton: Quaker Immigrants to Pennsylvania," by Charles M. Hansen.  AmericanAncestors.org

How about this one

1. Walter is the son of Walter Pack Sr. DNA confirmed
2. Walter is the son of Jamie Lee (Lilly) Pack DNA confirmed
3. Jamie is the daughter of Ali Walter Lilly DNA confirmed
4. Ali is the son of James Floyd Coleman Lilly DNA confirmed
5. James is the son of Margaret Tiffany Lilly DNA confirmed
6. Margaret is the daughter of Mary Elizabeth (Shrewsbury) Lilly DNA confirmed
7. Mary is the daughter of Phillip Thomas Shrewsbury DNA confirmed
8. Phillip is the son of Mary Elizabeth (Clay) Wood [confident]
9. Mary is the daughter of William Mitchell Clay Sr. [confident]
10. William is the son of Margaret Hannah (Mitchell) Clay [unknown confidence]
11. Margaret is the daughter of Elizabeth (Innes) Mitchell [confident]
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Margaret Innes [confident]
13. Margaret is the daughter of Jean (Ross) Innes [unknown confidence]
14. Jean is the daughter of Margaret (Scott) Montgomerie [unknown confidence]
15. Margaret is the daughter of Walter Scott II [unknown confidence]
16. Walter is the son of Margaret Douglas [unknown confidence]
17. Margaret is the daughter of Margaret Hamilton [unknown confidence]
18. Margaret is the daughter of Janet (Home) Hamilton [unknown confidence]
19. Janet is the daughter of Agnes (Stewart) Maxwell [unknown confidence]
20. Agnes is the daughter of James Stewart [confident]
21. James is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident]
22. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident]
23. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence]
24. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
<!-- it's the last --> This makes Edward III the 22nd great grandfather of Walter.

Dunno about the Innes line, but we also show Mary Elizabeth Clay as a descendant of the well-known Augustine Warner and Mildred Reade, and Mildred is good.
+12 votes
===[[Pack-944|Walter H Pack Jr]] Connections to Gateway Ancestors & to gg's ===
* 1  [[Beville-27|Essex Beville]] - 7th cousin 10x rem - 6gg - [[Tilney-9|Phillip Tilney]] - 16gg
* 2  [[Bladen-4|Wm Bladen]] - 6th cousin 9x rem - 6gg - [[Howard-2| Thomas Howard KG KB]] - 16gg
* 3  [[Blakiston-12|George Blakiston]] - 6th cousin 11x rem - 5gg- [[Willoughby-66|Thomas Willoughby]] - 16gg
* 4  [[Blakiston-11|Nehemiah Blakiston]] - 7th cousin 10x rem- 6gg- [[Willoughby-66|Thomas Willoughby]] - 16gg
* 5  [[Bosvile-3|Elizabeth Bosvile]] - 4th cousin 11x rem - 3gg - [[Grey-162|Thomas Grey KG KB]] - 14gg
* 6  [[Bourchier-16|Mary Bourchier]] - 3rd cousin 22x rem - 2gg - [[Louvain-25|Matthew de Louvain]] - 24gg
* 7  [[Brent-190|George Brent]]  - 8th cousin 10x rem - 7gg - [[Neville-53|Ralph de (Neville) KG, PC]] - 17gg
* 8  [[Brent-31|Giles Brent]]  - 7th cousin 11x rem - 6gg - [[Neville-53|Ralph de (Neville) KG, PC]] - 17gg
* 9  [[Brent-317|Robert Brent]] - 8th cousin 10x rem - 7gg - [[Neville-53|Ralph de (Neville) KG, PC]] - 17gg
* 10 [[Bull-10|Stephen Bull]] - 8th cousin 9x rem - 7gg - [[Neville-163|Richard de (Neville)KG]] - 16gg
* 11 [[Calvert-613|Charles Calvert]] - 5th cousin 10x rem - 4gg - [[Grey-162|Thomas Grey KG KB]] - 14gg
* 12 [[Carleton-34|Edward Carleton]] - 5th cousin 12x rem - 4gg - [[Gascoigne-463|William Gascoigne XI]] - 16gg
* 13 [[Codd-38|St. Leger Codd]] -7th cousin 10x rem-6gg -[[Wydeville-1|Richard Wydeville KG]] - 16gg
* 14 [[Coytemore-1|Elizabeth Coytemore]] - 6th 12x rem - 5gg- [[Stanley-421|Thomas Stanley KG]] - 17gg
* 15 [[Coytemore-4|Thomas Coytemore]] - 6th cousin 12x rem - 5gg -  [[Stanley-421|Thomas Stanley KG]] - 17gg
* 16 [[Crymes-17|William Crymes ]] - 8th cousin 8x rem - 7gg - [[Howard-196|John Howard KG]] - 15gg
* 17  [[Davie-321|Humphrey Davie]] - 6th cousin 12x rem - 5gg -  [[Bonville-3|William Bonville KG]] - 17gg
* 18 [[Deighton-3| Frances Deighton]] - 6th cousin 12x rem - 5gg - [[Mowbray-17|Isabel Mowbray]] - 17gg
* 19 [[Deighton-6|Jane Deighton]] - 6th cousin 12x rem - 5gg - [[Mowbray-17|Isabel (Mowbray) Berkeley]] - 17gg
* 20 [[Deighton-7|Katherine Deighton]] - 6th cousin 12x rem - 5gg - [[Mowbray-17|Isabel|Mowbray]] - 17gg
* 21 [[Digges-14|Edward Digges]] -6th cousin 11x rem - 5gg -[[Wydeville-1|Richard Wydeville KG]] - 16gg
* 22 [[Drake-15|Robert Drake]] - 5th cousin 12x rem - 4gg - [[Neville-163|Richard de (Neville)KG]] - 16gg
* 23 [[Ellis-4443|Rowland Ellis]] - 8th cousin 10x rem - 7gg - [[Stanley-421|Thomas Stanley KG]] - 17gg
* 24 [[Fenwick-267|John Fenwick]] - 7th cousin 11x rem - 6gg - [[Stanley-421|Thomas Stanley KG]] - 17gg
* 25 [[Fisher-6749|John Fisher]] - 7th cousin 11x rem - 6gg - [[Berkeley-6|John Berkeley]] - 17gg
* 26 [[Fleete-1|Henry Fleete]] - 7th cousin 10x rem - 6gg - [[Howard-256|Robert Howard]] - 16gg
* 27 [[Foliot-56|Edward Foliot]] - 5th cousin 13x rem - 4gg - [[Mowbray-17|Isabel|Mowbray]] - 17gg
* 28 [[Gurdon-2|Muriel Gurdon]] - 5th cousin 11x rem - 4gg - [[Howard-196|John Howard KG]] - 15gg
* 29 [[Harleston-17|Elizabeth Harleston]] - 7th cousin 10x rem - 6gg - [[Neville-163|Richard de (Neville)KG]] - 16gg
* 30 [[Harleston-16|John Harleston]] - 7th cousin 10x rem - 6gg - [[Neville-163|Richard de (Neville)KG]] - 16gg
* 31 [[Horsemanden-2|Warham Horsemanden]]-7th cousin10x rem-6gg-[[Wydeville-1|Richard Wydeville KG]]-16gg
* 32 [[Houston-1467|Patrick Houston]] - 6th cousin 10x rem - 5gg - [[Seton-64|George Seton]] - 15gg
* 33 [[Humphrey-70|Anne Humphrey]] - 6th cousin 9x rem - 5gg - [[Howard-2| Thomas Howard KG KB]] - 14gg
* 34  [[Launce-4|Mary Launce]] - 7th cousin 10x rem - 6gg - [[Tilney-9|Phillip Tilney]] - 16gg
* 35 [[Levis-66|Hannah Levis]] - 9th cousin 9x rem - 8gg - [[Neville-53|Ralph de (Neville) KG, PC]] - 17gg
* 36 [[Levis-65|Samuel Levis]] - 9th cousin 9x rem - 8gg - [[Neville-53|Ralph de (Neville) KG, PC]] - 17gg
* 37 [[Levis-54|Sarah Levis]] - 9th cousin 9x rem - 8gg - [[Neville-53|Ralph de (Neville) KG, PC]] - 17gg
* 38  [[Ligon-76|Thomas Ligon]] - 5th cousin 13x rem - 4gg - [[Mowbray-17|Isabel|Mowbray]] - 17gg
* 39 [[Littleton-208|Nathaniel Littleton]]-8th cousin 10xrem-7gg- [[Cherleton-4|Edward de Cherleton KG]] - 17gg
* 40 [[Lloyd-177|Thomas Lloyd]] - 8 cousin 10x rem - 7gg - [[Cherleton-4|Edward de Cherleton KG]] - 17gg
* 41 [[MacKworth-2|Agnes Mackworth]] - 5th cousin 11x rem - 4 gg - [[Sutton-441|Edmund Sutton]] - 15gg
* 42 [[Manwarming-2|Oliver Manwarming]]- 8th cousin 9x rem-7gg-[[Strangeways-10|Thomas Strangeways]] -16gg
* 43 [[Mauleverer-17|Anne Mauleverer]]- 6th cousin 10x rem- 5gg - [[Gascoigne-56|Wm Gascoigne XII]] - 15gg
* 44 [[More-108|Richard More]] - 5th cousin 11x rem - 4gg - [[Sutton-441| Edmund Sutton]] - 15gg
* 45 [[Need-13|Joseph Need]] - 9th cousin 9x rem - 8gg -  [[Neville-53|Ralph de (Neville) KG, PC]] - 17gg
* 46 [[Need-3|Mary Need]] - 9th cousin 9x rem - 8gg -  [[Neville-53|Ralph de (Neville) KG, PC]] - 17gg
* 47 [[Nelson-804|John Nelson]] - 6th cousin 9x rem - 5gg - [[Stanley-421|Thomas Stanley KG]] - 14gg
* 48 [[Nelson-7430|Margaret Nelson]] - 6th cousin 9x rem - 5gg - [[Stanley-421|Thomas Stanley KG]] - 14gg
* 49 [[Nelson-696|Philip Nelson]] - 8th 9x rem - 7gg - [[Tiptoft-14|Sir John Tiptoft KB]] - 16gg   
* 50 [[Nelson-3897|Thomas Nelson]]  - 8th 9x rem - 7gg - [[Tiptoft-14|Sir John Tiptoft KB]] - 16gg   
* 51 [[Owsley-29|Thomas Owsley]] - 7th cousin 10x rem - 6gg -[[Wydeville-1|Richard Wydeville KG]] - 16gg
* 52 [[Oxenbridge-28|John Oxenbridge]] - 6th cousin 7x rem - 5gg - [[Neville-163|Richard de (Neville)KG]] - 16gg
* 53 [[Pelham-27|Herbert Pelham]] - 5th cousin 14x rem - 4gg - [[Boleyn-3|William Boleyn KB]] - 18gg
* 54 [[Peyton-434|Robert Peyton]] - 10th cousin 8x rem - 9gg - [[Fitzwilliam-93|William Fitzwilliam]] - 17gg
* 55 [[Pole-58|William Pole]] - 9th cousin 12x rem - 8gg - [[Courtenay-26|Hugh de Courtenay]] - 20gg
* 56 [[Pole-68|Elizabeth Pole]] - 9th cousin 12x rem - 8gg - [[Courtenay-26|Hugh de Courtenay]] - 20gg
* 57 [[Randolph-112|Henry Randolph]] - 12th cousin 8x rem - 11gg- [[Courtenay-25|Hugh de Courtenay KG]] - 19gg
* 58 [[Randolph-94|William Randolph]]  - 13th cousin 7x rem - 12gg- [[Courtenay-25|Hugh de Courtenay KG]] - 19gg
* 59 [[Reade-10|George Reade Esq]]-10th '''greatgrandfather''' - [[Pack-944|Walter Henderson Pack Jr]]
* 60 [[Rodney-57|William Rodney]] - 8th cousin 12x rem - 7gg - [[Wadham-3|John Wadham]] - 19gg
* 61 [[Rudyard-1|Thomas Rudyard]] - 9th cousin 11x rem - 8gg -  [[Ferrers-70|Robert de Ferrers]] - 19gg  
* 62 [[St_Leger-13|Katherine Saint Leger]] - 3rd 14x rem - 2gg - [[Baker-148|John Baker]] - 16gg
* 63 [[Saltonstall-27|Richard Saltonstall]] - 5th cousin 11x rem - 4gg - [[Gascoigne-56|Wm Gascoigne XII]] - 15gg
* 64 [[Skepper-17|William Skepper]] - 9th cousin 11x rem - 8gg -  [[Dronsfield-8|John Dronsfield]] - 19gg
* 65 [[Somerset-57|Mary Somerset]] - 4th cousin 10x rem - 3gg - [[FitzWilliam-358|Anne FitzWilliam  Cooke]] - 13gg
* 66 [[Torrey-93|Samuel Torrey]] - 11th cousin 10x rem - 10gg - [[Courtenay-26|Hugh de Courtenay]] - 20gg
* 67 [[Torrey-91|William Torrey]] - 11th cousin 10x rem - 10gg - [[Courtenay-26|Hugh de Courtenay]] - 20gg
* 68 [[Touteville-1|Margaret Touteville]] - 3rd cousin 12x rem -  2gg -  [[FitzWilliam-250|Wm FitzWilliam]] - 14gg
* 69 [[West-424|John West]] - 4th cousin 15x rem - 3gg - [[Boleyn-3|William Boleyn KB]] - 18gg
* 70 [[Wyatt-188|Hawte Wyatt]] - 10th cousin 10x rem - 9gg - [[Courtenay-25|Hugh de Courtenay KG]] - 19gg
by Andrea Pack G2G6 Mach 5 (57.1k points)
Moved...........
+14 votes

My ancestor,  Robert Rose , is not in Richardson, because he was born in 1704. However, he has a proven line. It is documented here on Wikitree and accepted in the Magna Carta Project. However it does not show up in Relationship Finder because there is a shorter path with a path poorly documented here. So I break it into two parts.

John is the 7th great grandfather of Robert (Confident)

1. Robert is the son of Margaret (Grant) Rose [confident]
2. Margaret is the daughter of Patrick Grant [confident]
3. Patrick is the son of John Grant [confident]
4. John is the son of Patrick Grant [confident]
5. Patrick is the son of Grissel Grant [confident]
6. Grissel is the daughter of John Grant [confident]
7. John is the son of Elizabeth (Forbes) Grant [confident]
8. Elizabeth is the daughter of Katherine Stewart [confident]
9. Katherine is the daughter of John Stewart [confident]
This makes John the seventh great grandfather of Robert.

Edward III is the second great grandfather of John (Confident)

1. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident]
2. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident]
3. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident]
4. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
This makes Edward III the second great grandfather of John.

#8 in the top list is in Richardson's Royal Ancestry, V p. 43, in the text only, as are all others back to Edward. The rest are clearly documented from primary sources here on Wikitree,

 

by James McDonald G2G6 Mach 1 (11.4k points)
edited by James McDonald
I have read your arguments on the profiles and on SGM.  They can be a bit hard to follow, but I think it looks good.  I'm going to add your Robert Rose to the accepted gateway ancestors list.
+14 votes
Gateway ancestor. Aubigny-7 is my 27th ggf
by Frankie Johnson G2G6 (8.1k points)

Hi Frankie,

By gateway ancestor we tend to mean that key ancestor who opens up one set of ancestors to a much larger new set of ancestors.  From a practical standpoint, this usually means a colonial immigrant who has a known ancestry into medieval times (there are many ways to define who is a gateway ancestor).  This thread is specifically looking for lines to Edward III rather than the Magna Carta Surety barons.

In your case it appears your gateway ancestor would be Elizabeth Mott-13.  I am not sure as to the accuracy of her ancestry and need to look into it a bit further.

+14 votes

1. Edward is the son of Dorothy (Harris) Kempe [confident] 
2. Dorothy is the daughter of Arthur Harris Esq. [confident] 
3. Arthur is the son of William Harris I, MP [confident] 
4. William is the son of Johanna (Percy) Harris [confident] 
5. Joan is the daughter of Thomas Percy [unknown confidence] 
6. Thomas is the son of Henry Algernon Percy KG, KB [unknown confidence] 
7. Henry is the son of Henry Percy KG [confident] 
8. Henry is the son of Henry Percy [confident] 
9. Henry is the son of Henry Percy [confident] 
10. Henry is the son of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [confident] 
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [confident] 
12. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident] 
13. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

 

Need to check.

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (258k points)

There appears to be a problem at  William Harris I, MP not being a son of Johanna (Percy) Harris

I will research sources better tonight.

This line has been broken.  William Harris I, MP was not a son of Johanna (Percy) Harris.  It was sort of a ridiculous connection given he and his supposed grandfather were born in the same year.  There are clues already on his profile as to the correct ancestry.  The History of Parliament states he was the son of John Harris of Prittlewell by his wife Joan (NOT Joanna Percy).

 

+14 votes

William Dudley-30

I will check out this line later.

1. William is the son of David Dudley [confident] 
2. David is the son of Roger Dudley [unknown confidence] 
3. Roger is the son of Henry Dudley [unknown confidence] 
4. Henry is the son of John Sutton [unknown confidence] 
5. John VII is the son of Cicely (Willoughby) Sutton [unknown confidence] 
6. Cecilia is the daughter of Joan (Strangeways) Berkeley [unknown confidence] 
7. Jane is the daughter of Catherine (Neville) Mowbray [unknown confidence] 
8. Catherine is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 
9. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
10. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (258k points)

This line needs to be broken, and corrected to match recent research:

“The English Origins of William Dudley of Guilford, CT” by Martin E. Hollick The American Genealogist 82 (2007):63-75.

This line has been broken and the profiles updated to match modern published research.

“The English Origins of William Dudley of Guilford, CT” by Martin E. Hollick The American Genealogist 82 (2007):63-75.

+13 votes
1 of 2

 

Edward III is the 22nd great grandfather of Valerie
1. Valerie is the daughter of [private father] [confident]
2. [Private] is the son of [private father] [confident]
3. [Private] is the son of Taylor Sizemore [confident]
4. Taylor is the son of William Sizemore [unknown confidence]
5. William is the son of Taylor Sizemore [unknown confidence]
6. Taylor is the son of Susan (Couch) Sizemore [unknown confidence]
7. Susan is the daughter of Mahala (Sizemore) Couch [unknown confidence]
8. Mahala is the daughter of Nancy (Bowling) Sizemore [unknown confidence]
9. Nancy is the daughter of Sarah Sally Blevins [unknown confidence]
10. Sarah is the daughter of William Blevins [unknown confidence]
11. William is the son of William Blevins [unknown confidence]
12. William is the son of William Blethyn [unknown confidence]
13. Will is the son of Henry Blethyn [unknown confidence]
14. Henry is the son of James Blethyn [unknown confidence]
15. James is the son of Elizabeth (Morgan) Blethyn [confident]
16. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Morgan [unknown confidence]
17. Thomas is the son of Rowland Morgan [unknown confidence]
18. Rowland is the son of Elizabeth (Vaughan) Morgan [confident]
19. Elizabeth is the daughter of Joan (Whitney) Vaughan [confident]
20. Joan is the daughter of Constance (Tuchet) Whitney [unknown confidence]
21. Constance is the daughter of Eleanor (Holand) Touchet [confident]
22. Eleanor is the daughter of Constance (York) le Despencer LG [confident]
23. Constance is the daughter of Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG [confident]
24. Edmund is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
by Valerie Sizemore G2G3 (3.3k points)
2 of 2

The relationship also says (comparing to the first 10 gateway ancestors):
Essex Beville and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of Henry (Norreys) Norres.
Elizabeth (Bosvile) Pelham and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of John Fray.
Robert Brent Gent. and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of John Fray. (uncertain)
Saint Leger Codd and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of William Herbert KG.
Humphrey Davie and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of Philip (Courtenay) de Courtenay (uncertain)
Edward Digges and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of William Herbert KG.
John Fisher and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of Alexander Fisher. (uncertain)
Elizabeth (Harleston) Ball and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of John Durward
Elizabeth (Harleston) Ball and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of John Durward
Sarah Levis and Valerie Sizemore are both descendants of John St John Esq.

This line is good down to 17 Rowland Morgan.  Then something is wrong; I believe the result of a bad merge.  Then profile is currently showing 13 children when I think he only had 6.  I am trying to figure out how to detangle this.

This line is inadequately documented and is not generally accepted.  It has been highly researched so I hesitate to just break it.  Everyone of these generations is doubtful, especially the origins of Henry Blethyn the immigrant ancestor).

 

13. Will is the son of Henry Blethyn [unknown confidence]
14. Henry is the son of James Blethyn [unknown confidence]
15. James is the son of Elizabeth (Morgan) Blethyn [confident]
16. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Morgan [unknown confidence]
17. Thomas is the son of Rowland Morgan [unknown confidence]

+13 votes

Edward III is the 24th great grandfather of Deb

1. Deb is the daughter of Charles Lewis [confident] 
2. Charles is the son of Hulda Caroline (Hubbard) Lewis [confident] 
3. Hulda is the daughter of Elisha Freeman Hubbard [confident] 
4. Freeman is the son of Elisha Freeman Hubbard [confident] 
5. Elisha is the son of Marshall Moore Hubbard [confident] 
6. Marshall is the son of Elisha Hubbard [confident] 
7. Elisha is the son of Elisha Copeland Hubbard [confident] 
8. Elisha is the son of Desire (Copeland) Hobart [confident] 
9. Desire is the daughter of Mary (Kingman) Copeland [confident] 
10. Mary is the daughter of Desire (Harris) Kingman [confident] 
11. Desire is the daughter of Isaac Harris [confident] 
12. Isaac is the son of Arthur Harris [confident] 
13. Arthur is the son of Anthony Harris [confident] 
14. Anthony is the son of Thomas Harris [confident] (Gateway Ancestor) 
15. Thomas is the son of William Harris [unknown confidence] 
16. William is the son of John Harris [confident] 
17. John is the son of Johanna (Percy) Harris [unknown confidence] 
18. Joan is the daughter of Thomas Percy [unknown confidence] 
19. Thomas is the son of Henry Algernon Percy KG, KB [unknown confidence] 
20. Henry is the son of Henry Percy KG [confident] 
21. Henry is the son of Henry Percy [confident] 
22. Henry is the son of Henry Percy [confident] 
23. Henry is the son of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [confident] 
24. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [confident] 
25. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident] 
26. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

As an aside, I am also a direct descendant of Edward I through one of his daughters, Joan of Acre. I haven't yet entered the line that leads to her, but it is on my "to-do list" along with 5,000,000 other items. ;)

by Deb Durham G2G Astronaut (1.1m points)
Thank you for this one Deb.  I also descend from Thomas Williams alias Harris.  John Harris was not a son of Joanna Percy Harris, and I have broken the line.
Good to know!  I hadn't really researched it yet (so many ancestors, so little time!) I had just connected to a profile I am sure of and that connection led to John Harris and the false link to Edward III.
And I seem to have forgotten my manners. Nice to meet you cousin! :D
+13 votes

My Edward III relationship trail...

2. Paul is the son of Edward Henry Kingman DNA confirmed 
3. Edward is the son of Isaac Henry Kingman DNA confirmed 
4. Isaac is the son of Isaac Kingman DNA confirmed 
5. Isaac is the son of Eliphalet Kingman DNA confirmed 
6. Eliphalet is the son of Matthew Kingman DNA confirmed 
7. Matthew is the son of Henry Kingman DNA confirmed 
8. Henry is the son of Bethiah (Howard) Kingman [confident] 
9. Bethiah is the daughter of John Howard Sr. [unknown confidence] 
10. John is the son of James (Howard) Haward [confident] 
11. James is the son of William Howard [confident] 
12. William is the son of Thomas Howard KG [confident] 
13. Thomas is the son of Henry Howard KG [confident] 
14. Henry is the son of Elizabeth (Stafford) Howard [confident] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Edward Stafford [unknown confidence] 
16. Edward is the son of Henry Stafford KG [unknown confidence] 
17. Henry is the son of Humphrey Stafford Knt. [confident] 
18. Humphrey is the son of Humphrey Stafford KG [unknown confidence] 
19. Humphrey is the son of Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester [unknown confidence] 
20. Anne is the daughter of Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG [unknown confidence] 
21. Thomas is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [uncertain] 
 

It would appear that John Howard Sr. is my gateway ancestor, but he is not on the list.

John

by John Kingman G2G6 Mach 6 (63.0k points)

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