Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one?

Question

One of the stated goals of the Edward III Project is to develop a list of proven gateway ancestors to Edward III.  This post goes a long way towards that goal.

Below is a list of 17th century new world immigrants with a recognized descent from Edward III, king of England. The list was kindly provided by Douglas Richardson, author of the Royal Ancestry series.  Links to all of them can be found on this page.

This list currently is 70 individuals representing 55 different families. Of the 70 individuals, 32 settled in the Southern Colonies, 27 in the New England Colonies, and 11 were part of the Quaker migration to the Middle Colonies.

Use the Relationship Finder to find if you have a connection to Edward III, king of England (Plantagenet-70). Does your gateway ancestor appear below?  If not, we will work to prove or disprove your connection.

Do you have a gateway ancestor from a population group other than American colonial immigrants (e.g. Australian, South African, European, etc.)? Post them here or in a separate G2G post and we will create new categories and new lists to track them. The line must be very well documented.

The List of 17th Century New World Immigrants

Barbara Aubrey, John Barclay, John Bevan, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George, Giles & Robert Brent, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, St. Leger Codd, Elizabeth & Thomas Coytemore, William Crymes, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, Robert Drake, Rowland Ellis, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Patrick Houston, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Agnes Mackworth, Oliver Manwaring, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, Henry & William Randolph, George Reade, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Mary Johanna Somerset, Samuel & William Torrey, Margaret Touteville, John West, Hawte Wyatt.

Some confirmed additions:

William Asfordby, Charles Barnes, Marmaduke Beckwith, William Farrar, Elizabeth Mansfield, Anne Mansfield, John Mansfield, Robert Spotswood, Robert Rose, Margaret Toshach

Comments

All three of those are gateway ancestors to medieval English ancestry.  I do not think any of them have a line to Edward III (which is what we are looking for).

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Yes. Frances Deighton is my gateway ancestor. She is my 10th great grandmother.

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Edward III is the 21th great grandfather of Rachael.

Frances Deighton is the gateway ancestor. She is my 10th great greandmother.

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My husband, [[Strutt-262|David Strutt]] is a direct descendant of Edward III, Plantagenet-70.

20. David Strutt, 19. Audrey Lett, 18. Pittman Lett, 17. Florence Gertrude Ferguson, 16. George Ferguson, 15. John Ferguson, 14. Helen Stewart 13, Robert Stewart, 12 Alexander Stewart, 11. Alexander Stewart, 10. Janet Stewart 9. Anne Campbell, 8. Colin Campbell, 7. Annas Campbell 6. Colin Campbell, 5. Mariote Stewart, 4. John Stewart, 3. Joan Beaufort 2. John Beaufort 1. John Plantagenet, 0.  Edward III. I only just discovered this so will have to to more DNA checking to prove it.

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These are coming in much faster than I can research and answer.  I hope to get to all of them. Any help appreciated.

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Anna, please post your line to the new G2G question:

Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one? (Round 3)

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Joe, Will a Gateway category for New France be added? As my gateway  to  Plantagenet-70 comes thru Anne Couvent.

Angela Boyer Cortner

Boyer-3525

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I think there is a legitimate issue with the connection between Francois de Joyeuse and Robert de Joyeuse.

Francois says in a 1733 notarial act that he is the son of Robert de Joyeuse, but offers no proof of it. To me that's problematic and Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky fail to provide any proof besides Francois saying it.Medieval Lands has a great explanation as to why the connection is suspicious and unsubstantiated. 

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/champorret.htm#FrancoisJoyeusedied1556B

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Thanks Darrell, the link  contains  so much interesting research on this family line.

Hoping someone has access to any missing documents that would help.

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As of now nobody talks about it, but I would love to know more and examine the records myself. Unfortunately countless times in the past people would go from embellishing their family to outright publishing connections that were fantasy. I would hate to see the Anne Couvent line be perpetually duplicated if it may not be correct at this de Joyeuse point. Unfortunately that is also the connection (Francois to supposed father Robert) that establishes her gateway ancestor status. We need some help in France to answer the nagging questions!

Darrell

Answer 1

Mine is Nathaniel Littleton.

Answer 2

I appear to be related to all of the  70 gateway ancesters. They are all cousins of different  numbers and degrees ranging from 3 up to 11th. There were no grandparents at all in the list. but if just about all show up as cousins. does that show that there is a connection along that line? Edward III is my 22th great grandfather, per the relationship finder.

Thought i was missing one but was able to find it.

Comments

If you're a descendant of Edward III, you're a cousin of all his other descendants.

If you're seeing "all but one", that line must have become disconnected.

Answer 3

My relationship finder says I'm a direct descendant, but count me as a doubter. It looks like someone has added 2 daughters to Stanley-493 who may not be right. That leads to Hardy-85, who may be my ancestor but is not on your list of gateway ancestors. I'm not sure where the break needs to occur; I'll leave that to you to do.

Comments

Discussion here

https://www.ancestry.ca/boards/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=2724&p=surnames.hardy

Answer 4

Does it count if you come farther up like Plantagenet-143?

Comments

Since I corrected one below - it doesn't count (but where else are you going to ask about this...this is a good a G2G as any.)

Answer 5

Just traced my family straight back to Edward III and we are in Va now.

Comments

Have you checked all the steps to see if they all make sense and have good evidence? One of our aims on wikitree is of course to make sure these trails are all well-checked and explained on the profiles, so if you see bits needing work you can post on the appropriate profiles or here on G2G.

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Yes, I would only have posted here after the documents matched and each person confirmed. It’s not taken lightly. We descend from Lionel of Antwerp through his daughter.

Answer 6

Lora and Edward III are third cousins 21 times removed 

Lora (Kartchner) Eckler and Edward III (Plantagenet) of England are both descendants of Henry II Plantagenet.7. John is the son of James M (Wilcox) Willcox [unknown confidence] of Ivy Mlls
James M Willcox formerly Wilcox

Born 23 Mar 1732 in Ivy Mills, Concord Township, Delaware, Pennsylvania

This would be my colonial ancestor according to WikiTree. There are a number of relatives in common 

Comments

Like me, not actually a descendant of Edward III. 

Your tree has some issues - Stephen Cole has a long note about these problems. The long line of mysterious Cole men leads to Agnes FitzWarin, who is PPP'd & the da. of Fulk FitzWarin 5th Lord FitzWarin and Elizabeth Cogan. His heir was his son Fulk, who was 3 years old in 1391, and eventually succeeded by Fulk's sister Elizabeth, who was 17 in 1407. So if Agnes was a) a real person b) alive in 1407 she would have been a co-heiress. Ultimately, she has the wrong parents, which disconnects you from that line.

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The Cole men are fully of mysteries - now you are connected to Henry I through Anne (Bodrugan) Cole who is PPP'd with a long note plus a G2G about this situation. 

I'm leaving her alone - the Cole tree seems to be very sketchy.

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Yes...seemed off to me but WikiTree linked me to it and I haven’t spent the time checking the line out that far. Thanks

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Thanks...guess I need to see if my proven line to Diana Spencer or even the backdoor one to the Bowes-Lyon family will link as well. Still spending most of my time at the brick wall of my mother’s family...I swear they were early witness protection in the 1700s...showed up in NC no record anywhere can’t even prove they are brothers, cousins, whatever. Family can’t even agree which of the three descent is from.

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It is hard to actually check these lines so we're happy to help.

I don' t know your specific situation but here's some guidance - in general, a high percentage of the British population didn't own property and there was no civil registration system, plus literacy was not common so our ancestors often had nothing written about them and they never wrote anything themselves during their lifetime. Plus, any records could have been destroyed long ago - it's like they didn't exist at all - which is very frustrating.

But after they emigrated, they were notable - most were property owners, lots was written about them (church, courts, wills because they actually owned stuff, etc) and literacy appears to my eye to be more common because separatist churches wanted people to read the Bible so we find out about these people. We assume there's something in England we're 'missing' to prove the connection - why so many American documents but no English documents? It is frustrating and it leads to a lot of guessing.

Answer 7

My Relationship Finder for Doug Warren [Warren-4338] finds that Edward III [Plantagenet-70] is my 20th great-grandfather, although I do not see anyone in the Gateway Ancestor list.

Edward III is the 20th great grandfather of Doug

1. Doug is the son of Elinor (Kaye) Warren [unknown confidence] 

2. Elinor is the daughter of Gertrude (Bryant) Kaye [unknown confidence] 

3. Gertrude is the daughter of George Hiram Bryant [unknown confidence] 

4. George is the son of Hamilton Bryant [unknown confidence] 

5. Hamilton is the son of Alexander Elexsander Bryant [unknown confidence] 

6. Alexander is the son of Joanna (Cole) Bryant [unknown confidence] 

7. Joanna is the daughter of Ebenezer Cole [unknown confidence] 

8. Ebenezer is the son of John Cole Jr [unknown confidence] 

9. John is the son of Susanna (Gray) Cole [unknown confidence] 

10. Susanna is the daughter of Edward Gray Sr. [unknown confidence] 

11. Edward is the son of John Gray I [unknown confidence] 

12. John is the son of Ralph Grey [unknown confidence] 

13. Ralph is the son of Isabelle (Grey) Ogle [unknown confidence] 

14. Isabel is the daughter of Thomas Grey [unknown confidence] 

15. Thomas VI is the son of Isabel (Darcy) Grey [unknown confidence] 

16. Isabel is the daughter of William Darcy [unknown confidence] 

17. William is the son of Richard Darcy [unknown confidence] 

18. Richard is the son of Joan (Greystoke) Darcy [unknown confidence] 

19. Joan is the daughter of Elizabeth (Ferrers) Greystoke [unknown confidence] 

20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident] 

21. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 

22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

This makes Edward III the 20th great grandfather of Doug.

Comments

You also have mysterious Cole ancestry. 

Edward Gray Sr. was a very wealthy person when he died. Both he and his father John have a lot of details although neither one are in MCA. 

 #13 Ralph was the son of Isabelle (Grey) Ogle and Ralph Grey 4th cousins and both . The line you mentioned goes through Isabelle; Ralph's father Edward is mentioned on MCA v.2. p. 259 - I didn't see this one continue.

Similarly, #18 Richard Darcy is Launce 10 on MCA v3. pp. 4-5 but Isabel #16 isn't in MCA or PA.

Anyways, a muddle but more promising than most lines!

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Thanks for the information.

Answer 8

Edward III was my 19th Great grandfather, sourced and documented,

Answer 9

Edward III is my 21st great grandfather. My gateway ancestor would be Elizabeth Randolph Tinsley who is my 10th great grandmother, daughter of John Randolph. She was born 1613 in England and died 1702 in Virginia

Comments

Elizabeth Randolph Tinsley has this note: Birth: Apr 1613/14 Northamptionshire daughter of William and Elizabeth Randolph.[1] but her parents are John Randolph and UNKNOWN Randolph.  John was born in 1619 so there's something wrong here. 

Her gf Sir William Randolph has a citation to a W&M CQ article and  Royal Ancestry by Douglas Richardson Vol. IV p. 457. Hopefully someone could check RA for us and we'll check further.

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She's been clearly mixed up with this Elizabeth Randolph who is in the WMCQ p. 122. married to someone named Burkett. Thomas Tinsley was not literate according to his will and doesn't seem to be the right social class to have married a Knight's da and doesn't have any connection to his wife's possible half-brother Henry Randolph's family who lived in Virginia. I'm guessing her surname is simply unknown.

Answer 10

Edward III is the 20th great grandfather of Donald (Uncertain)

1. Donald is the son of [private father]  
2. [Private] is the son of Harry LaMunion  
3. Harry is the son of Almeda (Marble) LaMunion 
4. Almeda is the daughter of Daniel Samuel Marble
5. Daniel is the son of James B Marble 
6. James is the son of Ruth (Woodbury) Marble 
7. Ruth is the daughter of Joseph Woodbury  
8. Joseph is the son of Ruth (Conant) Woodbury 
9. Ruth is the daughter of Lot Conant Jr 
10. Lot is the son of Elizabeth (Walton) Mansfield 
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Cooke) Walton 
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Martha (White) Moore 
13. Martha is the daughter of Isabel (Bawle) White 
14. Isabel is the daughter of Alice (Weston) Bawle 
15. Alice is the daughter of Cecilia (Neville) Weston 
16. Cecilia is the daughter of Ralph Neville
17. Ralph is the son of Ralph Neville KB 
18. Ralph is the son of Anne (Holland) Douglas 
19. Anne is the daughter of John (Holland) de Holland 
20. John is the son of Elizabeth (Lancaster) Holand LG 
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG 
22. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England
This makes Edward III the 20th great grandfather of Donald.

Comments

Hi - we're 6th cousins & we share this particular tree through  Lot Conant Jr 

I do not think we qualify in this line to Edward III; Cecilia (Neville) Weston ancestry has issues: Douglas Richardson and others have been arguing about this for ages. See  Weston 1632 Pedigree Controversy. 

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I had given that space another read - there's not a lot of nuance in WT's 'uncertain' and this is a different animal.

So maybe Elizabeth (Cooke) Walton  should be on the list of 17th century Immigrants, perhaps with a qualifier?

Answer 11

Edward III is my 22nd great grandfather. How can you tell which one is the gateway ancestor?

Comments

Your gateway ancestor is usually the immigrant ancestor - the one that connects your US ancestry to the larger ancestry in England.  In your case it would be Christopher Cox.  However, without even studying the line, I know there is going to be a problem with the parents of Christopher Cox being wrong or unproven.  Can you prove his parents with actual sources?

1. Greta is the daughter of [private father]
2. [Private] is the son of Donald Lee Moody 
3. Donald is the son of Glenmore Judson Moody 
4. Glenmore is the son of Samuel Moody 
5. Samuel is the son of Jessie Moody 
6. Jessie is the son of John Moody 
7. John is the son of George William Moody 
8. George is the son of Susannah (Amoss) Moody 
9. Susannah is the daughter of Lucy (Martin) Amos 
10. Lucy is the daughter of Jane (Bridgewater) Martin 
11. Jane is the daughter of Hester (Cox) Bridgewater 
12. Hester is the daughter of Christopher Cox 
13. Christopher is the son of Elizabeth (Sampson) Cox 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of Martha (Cooper) Samson 
15. Martha is the daughter of Mary (Wynne) Cooper 
16. Mary is the daughter of Siân (Bulkeley) Wynne 
17. Jane is the daughter of Catherine (Griffith) Bulkeley 
18. Catherine is the daughter of Jane (Stradling) Griffith 
19. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Stradling Esq 
20. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling 
21. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling 
22. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort 
23. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG 
24. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England 

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I notice that the mother of Christopher Cox has a reference to an article. I presume it relates to her brother who was apparently on the Mayflower?

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Yes, this is correct. Henry Samson is Elizabeth's brother.

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Thanks for the explanation, Joe. I will have to look into sources that state Christopher's parents.

Answer 12

I believe I am descended from Mabel Harlakenden Eaton and she might be a gateway ancestor. I also think I am descended from Mary Launce  but haven't made the connection yet (through her daughter Mary Sherman and her daughter Grace Barron and her daughter Mary Fowler). I'm still a bit hesitant about the pre-1700 profiles and am working my way up slowly. Thanks for taking this on, it's fascinating and definitely above my pay grade!

Comments

The Mable Harlakenden line breaks at Catherine (Fiennes) Londenoys.  Catherine is not accepted as a daughter of Thomas Fiennes, 8th Lord Dacre.  This was originally published in 1830 and found its way into a couple of NEHGR articles.  However, it was challenged by an article in The American Genealogist in 1937.  There is no actual evidence that Thomas Fienne had a daughter Catherine.  See:

• The American Genealogist, vol. 14 no. 4 (1937): pages 209-214. "The Harlakenden Claim of Royal Descent," by Meredith B. Colket.
• New England Historical and Genealogical Register, vol. 56 no. 1 (January 1902): pages 40-41. "The Royal Descent of Harlakenden," by A. Descendant.
• New England Historical and Genealogical Register, vol. 16 no. 2 (April 1862): page 194. "Harlackenden Family" by Isaac J. Greenwood.

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Mary Launce is on the list of those with a well-established descent from Edward III.

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The Launce line was missing one profile, Grace (Barron) Fowler  but both her mother Mary (Sherman) Barron  and her daughter Mary (Fowler) Dudley were in WT already. Since that was the only missing link I went ahead and created her - she's documented in the Barron TAG article. 

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Thank you kindly, that's much appreciated!

Answer 13

My wife and I are both descendants of Edward III.     Jack

Answer 14

My ninth great grandfather, Lt. Col. John Washington, should be on this list i think.

Also Giles Brent is a great uncle but his brother is not on the list or his father.

Comments

I do not believe John Washington has a direct line to Edward III.

The Brent family has three members on the list.  Only the first immigrant ancestor in a line is included, not children or parents.  Which brother do you think belongs on the list?

Answer 15

Edward III is the 22th great grandfather of Raymond (Uncertain)

1. [Private] is the son of [private father] [confident]
2. [Private] is the son of Rufus Samuel Nichols [confident]
3. Rufus is the son of James Ira Nichols [confident]
4. Jim is the son of Harriet Isabella (Williams) Nichols [confident]
5. Isabella is the daughter of Clarissa Alice (Richards) Williams [unknown confidence]
6. Betty is the daughter of Christopher C. Richards Sr. [unknown confidence]
7. Christopher is the son of Waitman Franklin Richards [confident]
8. Waitman is the son of Edward Richards [confident]
9. Edward is the son of Ann (Merryman) Richards [confident]
10. Ann is the daughter of Jane (Long) Knight [unknown confidence]
11. Jane is the daughter of Thomas Long II [unknown confidence]
12. Thomas is the son of Thomas Long I [unknown confidence]
13. Thomas is the son of Gifford Long [unknown confidence]
14. Gifford is the son of Edward Longe [unknown confidence]
15. Edward is the son of Henry Longe [unknown confidence]
16. Henry is the son of Eleanor Wrottesley [uncertain]
17. Eleanor is the daughter of Dorothy (Sutton) Wrottesley [confident]
18. Dorothy is the daughter of Matilda (Clifford) Sutton [unknown confidence]
19. Maud is the daughter of Thomas Clifford [confident]
20. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [confident]
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [confident]
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [confident]
23. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident]
24. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
 

Comments

Hi Raymond,

I believe this line breaks in at least two places.  Henry Longe of Waddon was not the son of Henry Longe of Draycot (d. 1558) and Eleanor Wrottesley. They did not even have a son Henry. He was the son of Henry Longe of Semington (d. 1535).

Obviously, Henry Longe of Draycot (d. 1558) is not the same person as Henry Longe of Semington (d. 1535) as they are currently made to be on WikiTree.

Also, what is the evidence that the immigrant Maj. Thomas Longe was the son of Thomas Longe of Rood Ashton?

Answer 16

Col John West who married into my Fox line

 and Hawte Wyatt.

Answer 17

Is Gerard Spencer a gateway ancestor of Edward III?

Comments

Placing the proposed line here so it can be checked:

1. Gerard is the son of Alice (Whitbred) Spencer 
2. Alice is the daughter of John (Whitbred) Whitbread
3. John is the son of Eleanor Radcliffe 
4. Eleanor is the daughter of Humphrey Radcliffe 
5. Humphrey is the son of Elizabeth (Stafford) Radcliffe 
6. Elizabeth is the daughter of Henry Stafford KG 
7. Henry is the son of Humphrey Stafford Knt [confident]
8. Humphrey is the son of Humphrey Stafford KG 
9. Humphrey is the son of Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester 
10. Anne is the daughter of Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG 
11. Thomas is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England

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I would also propose another line through John of Gaunt.

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The line is broken at generation 4.  Eleanor Radcliffe is not a daughter of Humphrey Radcliffe and Isabel Harvey.  

Humphrey and Isabel had three known daughters, Mary, Elizabeth (m. Henry Owen), and Martha. They did not have a daughter Eleanor. That said, there are good reasons to believe Eleanor was related to this same Radcliffe family, but the connection is not known.

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This seems to be her Find A Grave - 

* Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 27 July 2020), memorial page for Eleanor Radcliffe Whitbread (1550–1628), Find a Grave Memorial no. 208941753, citing St Giles Churchyard, Gravenhurst, Central Bedfordshire Unitary Authority, Bedfordshire, England ; Maintained by DebVSatterleeMcLachlan (contributor 48021149) .

And her husbands:

* Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 27 July 2020), memorial page for John Lawrence Whitbread (1548–28 Nov 1598), Find a Grave Memorial no. 208941721, citing St Giles Churchyard, Gravenhurst, Central Bedfordshire Unitary Authority, Bedfordshire, England ; Maintained by DebVSatterleeMcLachlan (contributor 48021149) .

Answer 18

11. William is the son of William Robert Duncan II [confident]
12. William is the son of Susan Sarah (Haldane) Duncan [confident]
13. Susan is the daughter of Richard Haldane [confident]
14. Richard is the son of Anne (Erskine) Leslie [confident]
15. Anne is the daughter of John Erskine KG PC [confident]
16. John is the son of Annabella (Murray) Erskine [confident]
17. Annabella is the daughter of William Murray [confident]
18. William is the son of Margaret (Stewart) Murray [unknown confidence]
19. Margaret is the daughter of John Stewart [unknown confidence]
20. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident]
21. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident]
22. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident]
23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]

It seems that https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Duncan-1551 is the immigrant in this line

Comments

I think you just need to look at the profile of the immigrant to see that the line needs to be broken here.  There is no evidence as to his parents.

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This line has so many errors... 

To make it simple though, Anne Erskine the daughter of John Erskine and Mary Stewart did not marry Richard Haldane and did not have a son Richard Haldane.

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I wouldnt know where to start to correct it all.

Answer 19

Relationship between Edward III and me: First cousins 25 times removed

Answer 20

I don't think she counts as a gateway ancestor, I know she has living descendants in Germany, I know that  there are lots of German families   that can claim descent from Edward III. But does this line look Ok. Some of them are pre 1500 so no can do.  I can work on the later ones and find better sources. If some kind person with pre 1500  could give the older profiles the once over, and give their expert  opinion if the line is good or  not I would be very pleased 

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Plantagenet-70&person2_name=Lindsay-5612

Comments

The line is correct.

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Thanks, for that.