Queen Elizabeth II - can't we do better?

+31 votes
1.3k views
Queen Elizabeth II is arguably the most famous royal in the world but her profile is shambolic and nonsensical. Her husband and marriage aren't even included, she has a mythical half-sister [due to her mother's profile being screwed up too] and her surname has been changed to "of the Commonwealth Realms" from Windsor. Those are just the biggest problems but they'll do for now.

So why don't I fix the profile instead of complaining? Well bafflingly there's already a project "British Isles Royals and Aristocrats 1500-Present Project" protecting it. I must question their competence for allowing their flagship profile to be in this state. I don't want to join them. I want them put in the Tower of London.

Is the project even active? Are they too busy editing their spurious descents from Alfred the Great? I'm sure a significant number of visitors check on the Queen's profile and this mess would dissuade them from joining.
WikiTree profile: Queen Elizabeth II Windsor
in Requests for Project Volunteers by Matthew Fletcher G2G6 Pilot (132k points)
recategorized by Abby Glann
OMG, what a mess!
Prince Charles is my 14th Cousin. Let me know how I can help. Thanks for all the hard work!
Ouch !
Still, her mother's and father's biographies can easily be edited. The profiles are open and the PPP status doesn't prevent you from editing the profile, only the parents can't be changed, removed or added. Her father's profile has no bio at all, and that's something anyone who has knowledge on the subject and has signed the Honor Code can do. Same for her mother's bio, which is not really fleshed out (and doesn't explain the strange presence of a third daughter).

I agree you can't edit the Queen's biography, and you can't remove the unknown sister from her mother's profile, but that's because the profiles of the Queen and her "sister" are private, not because of the PPP. You can request to be added to the trusted list and you'll be able to edit all this.
Update: QE II and her mother have had bio overhauls: just waiting now on merge approvals on the other parties to accept
Richard can you add a link to the Queen's official biography at the British Royal Family website

https://www.royal.uk/her-majesty-the-queen

the official biography of the Queen Mother is here

https://www.royal.uk/queen-elizabeth-queen-mother
Both have been added
Thank you Richard for adding a little more detail. It's a good start at improvement.(I assume you must be on the trusted list to have been able to make these changes.) I personally would like to see like to see more about her long life and reign.I did find  the new education section a bit  misleading.The  degrees are all honorary. Her actual education was at home under governesses ( famously 'Crawfie' (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Crawford ) and tutors (notably https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Marten_(educator) Her only institutional education was a vehicle maintenance course in the ATC.
Thanks Helen

My question in response to that is: What would that section be classified as if not "Education" considering degrees require learning something at somepoint?
Honorary degrees are just as it says Honorary and require no formal education in the subject.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_degree Cynically one could say that giving such an award to the Queen might result in her visiting the establishment to receive the award.
Maybe the current items under Education should be under the Honours section?

The official biography has a section under Education, and also a section about Jubilees that could be used to write a bit more about her long reign.  However with profiles that already have extensive biographies in places like Wikipedia, and the Royal Family website, there is probably no need to have detailed biographies on Wikitree as well.
Alright, I'll split into two; formal education and honours
I'm happy to have stimulated debate and that most people seem to be in general agreement with me. Thanks to those volunteering to improve the profiles.

One point that came up a few times was that some of the privacy issues were due to the Queen being a living person. This seems pointless when every fact about the Queen's life and family are matters of public record. I can't accept that "revealing" that her husband is Prince Phillip, or the identities of her children, is infringing privacy! Perhaps we need a new category of public figure where this information is not protected, even when living.

7 Answers

+25 votes
 
Best answer

Hi Matthew, what a great find and opportunity to make WikiTree better. I'm a big fan of ERII and it could be a really fun short-term collaborative effort or community challenge to shape up her profile. I do have a few questions.

You ask whether the British Isles Royals subproject is "even active". Did you make any effort to contact the project leaders or members before posting here? Or the leaders of its parent project, Euroaristo? If so, what was the response?

Nearly all projects have thousands more profiles than they can possibly actively edit and improve at one time. Unsurprisingly, the volunteer members of a project will tend to spend their voluntary time working on profiles of interest to themselves. The volunteer leaders of a project don't generally dictate priorities, nor would it be likely to be effective if they did. You say that the volunteer members of the project should be punished for not prioritizing your own personal favorite profile at the same time as you say you don't want to join the project yourself to help out. I'm confused by that. You've clearly got the interest, knowledge, and passion to carry out exactly the work you believe needs to be done. Why should anyone else take up this torch at your demand after you have refused to do it yourself?

You mention that ERII's profile is project protected and that's why you haven't fixed it. Did you read up on project protection first, and are you familiar with what it means and what it doesn't mean? You may find it helpful.

Project protection limits only these three things:

  1. Protected profiles may be merged into, but may not be merged away
  2. Profile managers from non-protected profiles are not retained when their profile is merged into a protected one
  3. Parents may only be added to or removed from protected profiles by a profile manager or project leader/coordinator

The problems you highlighted with ERII's profile—missing spouse, incorrect sibling, a CLN/OLN you dislike (did you, however, check the project naming standards to confirm usage?), and a dissatisfying biography—are all editable, even on a protected profile, even by non-project members.

ERII's profile doesn't offer me an edit button either, but project protection isn't the reason. Since she is a living-but-notable person, her profile is semi-private and edits are limited to members of its Trusted List.

You need not become a project member to join a Trusted List. Before posting here did you submit a request to be added, and in it did you indicate that you are interested in undertaking work to improve those items in the profile? When I've asked to join the TL even of notable/contentious profiles and have written to the PMs that I am willing to put in productive work on them, I've almost always gotten a positive response.

Good luck with your efforts and I look forward to seeing the improved profile when you (and the collaborators you're sure to attract here) are finished! Thanks again for bringing it to the community's attention!

by Cheryl Hammond G2G6 Mach 3 (33.9k points)
selected by Abby Glann
It is normal that QEII's spouse is not visible on the profile. Her children have both their correct parents. Spouses are never shown on the profiles of living people - the only way around that is to give marriage information in the bio. And, in this particular case, it should be done. With a link to Prince Philip's profile.

Cheryl is absolutely right - all you need to do be able to do this is to be on the Trusted List.

Her Magesty Queen Elizabeth II is one of the rare human beings who have been on the world stage for as long as most of us can remember.

She has been my Queen 65 years and counting, she has advised a dozen prime ministers (the first was Winston Churchill) and observed 12/13 U.S. presidents and seven popes.  Certainly she deserves the respect of  all and with over 32,000 views on her profile here in Wikitree we need to do better as to documenting the life and family of  this much revered monarch.

Thank you Matthew for bringing this to the attention of all of us

 

 

 

+10 votes

Moreover, she married her cousin, Philip Mountbatten, whose not even listed as a private spouse. 

I actually did see them in person in Bodden Town, Cayman Islands, when they made a trip there.

I agree that some work needs to be done.  I also presume that her mother and father status indicators should be updated. 

by David Hughey G2G Astronaut (1.7m points)
+12 votes
Wow, that does sound bad.  But looking at the actual profile it's not as bad as you indicate.  Her LNAB is still Windsor.  I'm not sure how royal titles fit into the Surname category, but I suspect it's something that would be  something subject to British (or commonwealth) law.  Ususally in the US women take the surname of their husband, or use a hyphonated one.  Since there's no space for spouse on her profile, I suspect there has been some problems in the past and it was made invisible. In any case, none of the other members of the family show their spouses either, But you can see Prince Phillip by looking at the Family Tree and Genealogy Tools
by Dave Dardinger G2G6 Pilot (442k points)
I know I have read that there was an agreement (that Philip was NOT happy with) that both she and her children would keep the surname Windsor, and not take Philip's surname Mountbatten/Battenberg..
I believe the last names are OK. Windsor as LNAB is correct. "of the Commonwealth Realms" in the current last name allows her to be displayed as "Elizabeth II of the Commonwealth Realms" at the bottom of each connected profile, and it looks fine, I think.

Still, her biography is insufficient. It should at least link to her husband. The worst problem is her private half-sister, but  that can be resolved by contacting the profile managers of her mother's profile.
+7 votes
Part of the challenge is that this profile is marked Yellow (because the Queen is a living person) so its not possible for most people to edit it to improve it.  Becoming a member of the Trusted List is the solution.  

This is a challenge with many notable profiles and there is no way around it.
by Leigh Murrin G2G6 Mach 3 (35.8k points)
Unless Wikitree refines some of the policies that cause such thing.
+6 votes
On a related note, her uncle King Edward VIII has a duplicate (from a Gedcom imported last December it seems). I hope the merge may be completed soon.

EDIT: And as you can see by John Atkinson's comment below, new duplicates regularly appear. Hence the need to PPP many profiles of royals.
by Isabelle Martin G2G6 Pilot (568k points)
edited by Isabelle Martin
I've also just discovered that the Queen, her parents and some grandparents and her children, all have duplicates from a gedcom downloaded a couple of weeks ago.
Wow! Thank you John!
+7 votes
One thing I have learnt over the last 363 days I've been a part of WikiTree is that everyone has a different style of approach when it comes to adding profiles - part of that comes from where the information comes from.

Yes I visit my cousins profile (5th Cousin 2nd Removed) checking if sources I have our ancestors carry down to her / or if they have already been used on the profile.

Another thing: Just remember that people have lives too (although many of us like to think we can lead multiple lives...) But I hear you, it does bug me to!
by Richard Shelley G2G6 Pilot (247k points)
edited by Richard Shelley
+5 votes
A truly royal Royal.

Makes me wish America could completely bury the hatchet and somehow join the Commonwealth someday.
by Martyn Mulford G2G6 Mach 3 (30.1k points)

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