Collineau de Montaguerre name study

+7 votes
1.3k views

the name Collineau de Montaguerre and all its variations can be found in older French profiles, unsourced mostly except for http://www.genealogie.com/nom-de-famille/COLLINEAU-DE-MONTAGUERE.html  , and appears to be a name study more than anything else.  There are loads of them, all in France.  Anybody know anything about this family name who could do something about them?  Pre-1700s, most of them orphaned and from what I can see, imported by GEDCom in 2011.  I've tagged one example, there are lots of others.  They appear to be mostly women, given name entered is either Unknown, Inconnue, or sometimes Collineau.  

WikiTree profile: Collineau DeMontaguerre
in Genealogy Help by Danielle Liard G2G6 Pilot (345k points)
retagged by Isabelle Martin
Collineau de Montaguerre is a real family (unlike the "de Croquetagne" mythical ancestors of the Crockett family).

A basic search on Geneanet shows most Collineau de Montaguerre profiles 1500-1600 with very little info.

I would be very cautions around them as these dates and the noble-sounding name would make them the perfect start for a fancy French huguenot ancestry. There are LOTS of those, for the good reason that parish records before 1600 in France are scarce, so it's hard to prove anything, and if you can't prove anything, then anything is possible...

I don't believe there is a better option than checking them one by one. (I'm sorry for sounding bitter, I've been dealing with too many fakes lately).
Hi Isabelle,

I got rid of one of them, it was attached to a family for which I had a reliable source going up to that generation, and was a pure fantasy so don't be bitter, just laugh about it.  I changed the name to the correct one, rather than ditching it and making a new profile.  :D
Great!

I had a look at the ones on Wikitree and agree there's not much to go on.

Geneanet is enlightening: a plethora of profiles before 1650, the big majority women without first name with husband also without first name (Needless to say when the first name of a husband is not known, usually his wife is totally unknown). Then nothing, then two profiles, father and daughter in the first half of the 19th century. It seems the Collineau de Montaguerre, or Collineau de Montaguère, family settled in the Antilles (Guadeloupe or Martinique).

Early profiles almost certainly bogus. And they're not nobility either. There's nothing on the family in Gallica (the Bibliothèque Nationale de France website - they have an extensive collection of genealogical books).
interesting, if you look at the source Mary gave below, the breese GEDCOM is correct, I find that name (breese) regularly in these older profiles.  The site it rather laughable in its claims.
God what a mess

4 Answers

+5 votes
 
Best answer

Here's where I think they come from.

On 31 August 1794, Hippolyte Joseph Collineau married Françoise Rose Charlotte Ollivier in Nantes. She was the daughter of Antoine Joseph Ollivier, called "sieur de la Montaguère" on his marriage act, and is referred to as "Rose Charlotte Ollivier Demontaguer" on Hippolyte Joseph's death act, and "Rose Charlotte Olivier de Montaguere" on the indexed marriage of their son in the Mayet collection.

Their son was born Hippolyte Collineau in Nantes on 22 February 1798, but he dies as Hippolyte Collineau de Montaguère on 25 July 1868 in Guadeloupe. Son's marriage is lost (it happened in Paris) but we have a card for it in Collection Mayet: "Collineau de Montaguere, Hippolyte", born in Nantes, son of "Joseph Hippolyte" and "Rose Charlotte Olivier de Montaguere". His children carried the family name Collineau de Montaguère.

So it seems the beginning of the "Collineau de Montaguère" was when Joseph Hippolyte Collineau married Rose Charlotte Ollivier de Montaguère in 1798. There is no reason to suppose there were any Collineau de Montaguère, or Collineau de Montaguerre, before that. How these people who settled in Guadeloupe in the second quarter of the 19th century ended up as ancestors of a bazillion pioneers in New France is anybody's guess. I would venture it started as a private joke, a code name for an end-of-line ancestor, and was propagated by people who did not understand it.

I'm going to propose the classification of Inconnue Collineau de Montaguerre as a disproven ancestor.

EDIT - Of course, sources on the linked profiles. I'll add more as time permits.

by Isabelle Martin G2G6 Pilot (418k points)
selected by Danielle Liard

indeed, nice work inspecteur!  laugh  And from there the year 1794 got converted to 1594 by some I bet, just to make things ''fit''.

+5 votes
Hi Danielle

This site would appear to be the origin of the gedcom file. Looking at the De page is instructive.

 

http://breese823.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=breese823&view=9&ver=106

Your question was raised earlier on wikitree, and there is good discussion there

 

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/15706/who-was-inconnue-collineau-de-montaguerre

 

regards Mary
by Elsie Gorman G2G6 (8.9k points)

oh my!  T'' earliest recorded event is the birth of Booth, George, b.0007 , what fun!   I looked at the D, and De Montaguerre was there, looked at the first one, and that's the one that was the fantasy I corrected yesterday that I mention above to Isabelle..   Laughing madly here.

 

07

They have 4 different Unknown Collineau de Montaguerre. Wonder where they think they're going with that.

Just found this on the "genealogieplanete " forum (it's in French, but funny)

ma meilleure généabêtise:


J'ai commencé à faire de la généalogie suite à une "ostination" sur mon arrière gr-père, à table, le jour de Pâques, l'an dernier.

J'ai pris Ancestry, pour seulement 14 jours [c'était ce que je pensais! ], et j'ai commencé à faire mon arbre, à distance,  avec ma soeur, [ Ancestry c'était bien pratique pour ça. (...)

On venait tout juste de prendre  Ancestry-gratuit-pendant-14-jours qu'on y offrait les actes Drouin (..).

J'y cherchais tout; même ce que je trouvais dans le PRDH que je comprenais pas trop bien. Je pensais que ma soeur faisait pareil.  Je la trouvais drôlement efficace : notre arbre grandissait incroyablement vite.

Puis, ma soeur m'envoie un 'mail :

- C'est qui ça " COLLINEAU de MONTAGUERRE "  [ elle vient de me renvoyer son nom par 'mail].
...On descend de lui plus de 20 fois ...?

- euh.. ! ?

J'ai pris un chance, j'l'ai cherché dans Google, j'l'ai trouvé dans Wiki : c'est un Martiniquais "célèbre".
J'ai eu un gros petit doute, et ma soeur aussi, sur cette si importante ascendance antillaise. [ Débutant n'est pas synonyme d'ignorant. ]

J'ai pensé que quelqu'un s'amusait à écrire des niaiseries dans notre arbre, puis j'ai trouvé d'où provenait cet "aïeul", Collineau.

Ma soeur, prenait tous les "hints" d'Ancestry. [ Moi, j'les regardais même pas].
Et vlan! Elle gobait tout : d'un clic, s'ajoutaient 5 générations. Pif-paf, c'était bâclé.

[ Collineau...  c'était probablement quelqu'un qui mettait ce nom pour se signifier qu'il était au bout de sa lignée ].

...

Oups !  j'avais fait tout ce travail , pour rien.

:-(

 

Link: http://genealogieplanete.com/forums/display_topic/id_6813/Gna-modestie/

mdr, non mais, j'ai eu accès à Ancestry par ma cousin australienne, là-dedans on me donnait une aïeule qui était mariée avant sa naissance.  Cherchez l'erreur, comme on dit.  Le pire, c'est que cette même bêtise est dans l'arbre ici, en unmerged match étant donné que je n'ai pas eu de réponse de l'autre gérante de profil.
+4 votes

FYI - Collineau de Montaguerre

From : https://www.reddit.com/r/Genealogy/comments/6b73mw/collineau_de_montaguerre/

Okay folks, I've been doing genealogy for a long time now. I realize that the old records from the 15th and 16th centuries are extremely unreliable. It would be nice to see the original documents (or images of them) but they are never online.

So I have an unusual situation that cries out for attention. I have seen 5 (that's five) women named "Collineau de Montaguerre" in various branches of my tree in various parts of France in the late 15th and throughout the 16th century there. It just seems to be extremely unlikely. I have never seen either such first name or surname used for any one other than these five entries.

Does anyone else have this name? Perhaps there is something I don't know about it like that it's sort of a "Jane Doe" or "Rumpelstiltskin" thing? Has anyone ever heard of the "de Montaguerre" family, nobility or a place by this name? I just get a weird feeling about this situation.

by E Martin G2G6 Mach 7 (73.5k points)
Hi E., yes, had seen that, notice that somebody answered him referring to another one of our G2G discussions on this subject.  Pure fabrication is my conclusion.  Whether intentional or just stop-gap joke I haven't a clue, but needs a permanent handling so it never gets added to our tree again.
I have an idea for a long-term solution (long-term, because we're not there yet; not everybody is convinced that Collineau de Montaguerre is a myth yet): merge all the Collineau de Montaguerre into one (after making sure none of them has any connections), set the Disproven Existence project as manager and PPP the profile. Then if someone comes along with a new Collineau de Montaguerre it should be merged into it.
hehehe, great minds think alike, we have been merging a few of them already.  Disconnected any purported children, although she is looking worse than Henry the 8th for spouses now, since they are pretty much all of the ''unknown so-and-so'' type.
+5 votes

Just for laughs  laugh

From Geneanet

Descendants of Thomas Lemieux Montaguerre
Up to the great-grandchildren. 

Thomas Lemieux Montaguerre, born in 1497, Julienne, Charente, Poitou-Charentes, France, Deceased in 1560, La Gaignonnière, Tourouve, Perche, France (age at death: 63 years old). [http://trees.ancestry.com/pt/AMTCitationRedir.aspx?tid=89277444&pid=1231]

Married to Marguerite Collineau, born in 1500, St Gervais, Paris, Ile-de-France, Deceased in 1560, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France (age at death: 60 years old)
... Daughter :

  

Collineau De Montaguerre, born in 1520, La Gaignonniere, Tourouve, Perche, France, Deceased in 1560, La Gaignonniere, Tourouve, Perche, France (age at death: 40 years old).

Married to Pierre (Vincent) Noe, born in 1515, Poitou, France, Deceased 15 March 1608, Chalons-en-Champagne, Saint-Germain, France (age at death: 93 years old) 
... Child :

  

Jean Gagnon Noe, born in 1540, Courgeon, Montagne, Perche, France, Deceased 18 March 1639, Bossière, Namur, Belgium (age at death: 99 years old).

Married in 1575, France, to Jacqueline Vredin (Fortin), born in 1542, Mortagne, Normandy, France, Deceased in 1609, Rahway, Middlesex, New Jersey, United States (age at death: 67 years old)
... children :

  

Mathry Noe, born in 1580, Montagne, Gironde, Aquitaine, France, Deceased in 1608, Courgeoust, Perche, France (age at death: 28 years old).

Pierre Noe, born in 1584, Poitou, France, Deceased in 1660, Poitou, France (age at death: 76 years old).
Married to Egmont Jans, born in 1586, Walleslant, Zeeland, Netherlands, Deceased in 1638 (age at death: 52 years old).

Pierre Noe Nuee, born in 1584, Poitiers, Ancient Poitou, France, Deceased in 1660, Poitou, France (age at death: 76 years old).

Pierre Neau, born in 1610, Poitou, France, Deceased in 1660, Poitou, France (age at death: 50 years old).

   ...

by E Martin G2G6 Mach 7 (73.5k points)

gag me with a stick!  laughlaughlaugh

Wow! These people really had a peripatetic lifestyle laugh

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