Please help me sort out this stemma.

Question

[http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfralaoncou.htm#LetaudMarleA] and [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/nfralaoncou.htm#AdaMarleMEnguerrandICoucy]

There are 2 Letaud's and 2 Ada's a generation apart, when there should be one Letaud and one Ada according to FMG.

Comments

Hi Shelly... My name is Keith. I try to help make sure people's G2G posts work most effectively for them by correcting little glitches and such. Forgive me for not knowing, but did spell-check change your intended word "dilemma" into "stemma"?  I did not wish to make the edit without being sure...stemma might mean something of which I'm unaware.

No big deal either way :)

Have a super day!

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It is also a dilemma.lol

stemma = a recorded genealogy of a family; a family tree.

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Thank you!  Glad I asked. The more you know the more you grow :)

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Keith - I am also glad you asked!  And you did it so diplomatically!  Dilemma popped into my head also and then I waivered on that and went into some medical terminology.  LOL.  So we have both learned something new today.

Answer 1

With these pre-1200 profiles, if possible it's better not to make decisions, including merges, based on just one source, in this case Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands.

If there is only 1 Lietaud in this genealogy it creates problems.

Giselbert, Lietaud's father is known to have died about 991 or soon after, and according to Cawley, Ada/Adele's son from her second marriage was born about 1070-1075.  Even if Lietaud was born close to when his father died, and Ada/Adele was about 40 years when her son was born, that still means Lietaud had to be 40-50 when Ada was born.  That's not impossible, but given life expectancy at during this time period, an extra generation in there would seem to make more sense.

Definitely more research needs to take place before a merge of these profiles takes place.

Comments

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_of_Roucy

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There is some discussion near the end of this thread about the problems of the chronology and also doubt that Lietaud was the son of Giselbert.

See this post http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2004-11/1101075138 and a few others.

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What about the 2 Ada/Adeles. Here they are separated by a generation with only one husband each?

Can we agree on one Ada? dau of Letaud 1 or 2? With 2 husbands. 

married first Aubry, Viscount of Coucy, and second the scandalous Crusader Enguerrand I, Lord of Coucy

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I think we are on common ground there, that they represent the same person.  Just need to sort out who the father is - Lietaud 1 or Lieutaud 2?

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By the simple process of editing the Biography so that the cited facts stand out in subparagraphs, and facts from the data fields are entered with {citation needed}, the current contradictions stand out, as Lietaud I, the younger brother of Elbes, born 988, with an estimated birth year of his own of 990, is immediately younger than his purported son, Lietaud 2.

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My proposed merge came back with Aunt and niece ?? Do we disconnect Adela from parents first and then repropose the merge?

If you go down through the generations from Adela here its even more of a mess.  Ada has one correct husband and one correct child/ son while Adela has a correct husband but incorrect daughter listed as the mother of her husband Enguerrand.

FMG must be better than an unsourced gedcom to go by.

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I'm a curmudegon on this, and plenty of good people disagree with me, but my axiom is "fix -- add to -- the biographical narrative first, with all the facts you can cite", and then the relationships and merges will start to sort themselves out.

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I'm with you Jack, the actual merge, or disconnection of one profile from another, should be the very last action in the process, not the first.

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Thank you. I have started adding sources and adding to biographies.