Need help with the parents of Maren Sørine Nielsen (b. 27 Mar 1880 in Denmark)

Question

Hi,

I'd like to get some help my dead-ends, so I'll start with this one!

What is known:

• Maren Sørine Nielsen was born 27 March 1880 in Ødum Sogn, Randers Amt. Her parents are listed as Banevogter Niels Kristian Pedersen paa Taastrup Mark and Marie Katrine Larsen (Marie was 29). (Source)

• A day-old boy, son of Banevogter Niels Kristian Pedersen paa Taastrup Mark, died on 2 November 1881. (Source)(Birth record)

• Maren (listed as Sørine Margrete) married Thomas Niels Peter Møller on 4 November 1899. She was 19, from Vejle. She is listed as the daughter of Bane-Vogter Niels Christian Pedersen and Marie Katrine Larsen af Taastrup Mark i Ødum Sogn, (born same place) 27 March 1880. Maren's mother gave her consent for the marriage on that day. (Source)

However, I cannot find any mention of Niels Pedersen or Marie Larsen in any censuses for Taastrup Mark, Ødum Sogn; nor can I find the marriage record for them. Because of that, I don't know where either of them were born, and I've found no siblings besides the unbaptized boy referenced above.

There are a total of three people with the last name of "Larsen" as Maren's godparents; Andrea Lovise Larsen, Tjener (servant) i Helstrup; Rasmus Larsen og Peder Larsen, Ungkarle (Bachelors) i Sønder Rind. I looked for Marie Larsen in Sønder Rind and didn't find a record of her birth or confirmation, or the marriage of Marie and Niels.

I know that a translation of Banevogter is "Rail Net Guardian".

If there's something I've overlooked, I'd be glad to hear about it; otherwise, suggestions for where I should look next are most welcome.

Thanks, all!

Comments

I've found a few more leads since posting this query.

Her brother Lars Christian Peder Nielsen was born 31 Mar 1883, baptized 20 May at Vor Frue Kirke, Aarhus.

She also had a sister, Petrea Ingine, born 16 June 1885 and baptized 4 October at Aarhus Domsogn, Arhus.

There was also a stillborn son on 16 May 1890, Sønder Omme, Vejle.

In the 1890 census, Marie (listed as Marie Kathrine Pedersen) is a widow, with Maren, Lars, and Petrea, in Vejle. So the family moved sometime between 1885 and 1890; and Niels was (presumably) alive until at least September 1889.

Interestingly, the 1906 census has Petrea living with Niels Rasmussen Nielsen and Anna Marie Nielsen, both born 1875, and she is listed as "sister".

I believe that Niels Pedersen and Marie Larsen were married 20 Jul 1879, Sønder Vinge, Viborg, Denmark. Niels is listed as Enkemand, which might explain Petrea's previously unknown sibling, and Marie Larsen is listed as born 7-29-1851, Kolding. The censuses I found also list her birthplace as Kolding. So I need to work on figuring out more details on the marriage record: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9ZX-8812?cc=2078555

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Hi Madeleine,

Impressive work you have done! Apparently, the only remaining question is the one you asked to start with: Where are they in the 1880 census?

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Hi Torben,

I have actually found that too. It just shows how complicated this family is!

Marie and Niels were in Langå, Middelsom, Viborg in 1880: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/QL64-H74S . The child with them, Inger Marie Petrine Nielsen, is Niels' daughter from his first marriage to Maren Sørensen.

However, Niels and Maren had two other children besides Inger. I found evidence to suggest that both were alive after 1880, yet neither were in the 1880 census.

I eventually tracked them down. Søren Peter Nielsen lived with Maren's parents in Hadbjerg, Randers: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/QL64-J9GB. Niels Rasmussen Nielsen lived with Niels' mother, Inger Marie Christensdatter and step-father, Niels Rasmussen in Ødum. Niels Rasmussen was also Niels Christian Pedersen's uncle; he married his brother Peder Rasmussen's widow after Peder died in 1844. I have the birth records for both Søren Peter Nielsen and Niels Rasmussen Nielsen, showing that they are Niels Christian Pedersen and Maren Sørensen's children. This additionally shows that it was Niels Rasmussen Nielsen who was Petrea's half-brother (in the 1906 census).

I also found birth records for two other children in Hadbjerg: Peder Nielsen (27 Jun 1869) and another Søren Peter Nielsen (2 Jan 1872). I'm almost positive that they both died when they were each about 1 year old. I found death records (also in Hadbjerg) for the appropriate names and ages, but can't read the parent's names, so I haven't added them to WikiTree.

I still do not know when and where Niels Christian Pedersen died, though as I mentioned earlier there is a very narrow window for that. I did not see him in Vejle. They may still have been in Aarhus.

I also cannot find Marie Larsen after 1901; she is listed as Larsen in the 1901 census (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/QL6T-MQ8Q ) and not Petersen as in 1890.

Both Lars and Petrea joined Maren in Westchester, New York at some point after 1901; I found marriage records to support this fact.

Answer 1

Maren,

I suspect that you are running into the period when the government got very firm on forcing families to have a fixed family surname and when women started using their husband's surname.  So I did some searching with Pedersen as a surname.  I did not find families that I could clearly identify as Maren Sørine's parents.  But I did find some that might be them in different locations.

I did find several Niels Christian Pedersen's born in Randers Amt, including a couple born in or very near Ødum Sogn in the 1840's (the right time frame), but all or most are foster children or adopted children of poverty, probably orphans.

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid7365130

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid7340386

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid5283258

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid5422226

One born elsewhere was living with his parents in Ødum Sogn in 1850

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid7338329

I also think there is a good chance that this family moved on following the railroad in times of industrialization.  We know that Maren Sørine was in Vjele in 1899 which is two amts away from Randers.  The af Taastrup Mark i Ødum Sogn for her parents in her marriage record may have come from her birth record which generally had to be presented on marriage.  It might not have been where her parents were living at the time of her marriage.  Since it was her mother who gave the consent, her father might not have even been alive at the time of her marriage.

I checked the regular family search instead of DanishFamilySearch hoping to find the 1890 census there because you can search on first names only and relationships there.  I wanted to search for a Katrine with a daughter Sørine Nielsen or Pedersen throughout Denmark, but they only have the 1911 and 1916 censuses.  The search form at DanishFamilySearch does not allow for searching for couples or parents with their children.

Have you searched the confirmation records for around 1894 in both Ødum Sogn and Vjele Sogn for Sørine's confirmation record?  She would have had to be confirmed before she could leave home in search of a job.  That would give some clue as to whether her mother went with her to Vjele.  

If her father died and her mother remarried, that would make finding Sørine's mother particularly difficult as during the late 1880's to early 1900's, women often took their husband's names and that is what would appear in the census.

Have you looked through the death records in Ødum Sogn from 1899 to about 1935 looking for Sørine's mother's deaths?  Her mother was born about 1850 to 1851 based on her age in the baptism records of her children.  And she was alive in 1899 to give consent. So that would be the time frame for her.  I would start around 1880 looking for her father's death.

Have you searched the churchbooks of the other sogne in Galten Herred for the period between about 1865 and 1880 for Sørine's parent's marriage?

Also, have you searched the index volumes and the volumes for persons entering and leaving the parish for Ødum Sogn for the period between 1865 and 1880 or after 1881?  I can't remember the Danish words right now but I think the letters start with J and T.

Also, check the Danish emigration database for Sørine's parents.  There is a chance the parents might have immigrated without Sørine after she left home for a job or marriage.

Good luck.  And keep us posted on what you find. 

Comments

Hi Mary,

Thanks for the tip! I did find her confirmation record in Vejle, which means she was there by at least 1894 (Confirmed April 1st): https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127732#171615,28809949

Unfortunately, there aren't any entry or exit records for either Vejle or Odum during the period. I also did not find a death record for Niels Christian Petersen in Odum for 1881-1894.

I will try looking in the other sogne of Galten Herred next.

Thanks again!

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No index (J) for Vejle after 1864 either.

Adding together the confirmation in Vejle in 1894 with the information that someone else had the father's job in Taastrup Mark in 1890, I would check out the theory that the whole family may have moved to Vejle before 1890 and the father may have died in Vejle.

The only other idea I had was looking at some of the other types of records I have seen at Danish Family Search.

I found three you might want to explore further in Copenhagen police registration files:

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=1443862​ says he is living with someone named Larsen

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=3377722 says he was born in Taarup something

http://www.politietsregisterblade.dk/component/sfup/?controller=politregisterblade&task=viewRegisterblad&id=2272972 has a wife named Maren Christine

 

 

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I don't really think that any of the Niels Christians in the Copenhagen Police Registers are the right one, but of course it cannot be ruled out.

No 1: He is born in Aalborg in 1839, He is a tenant at a person or family named Larsen. His occupation is "bybud" i.e. he most likely work for a shopkeeper as a delivery person. Nothing of this rules him out, but is it likely to be the right person...?

No 2: He is born in Taarup on Falster. He is a widower after a wife caled Anna Sophia (this is uncertain, usually if a person is crossed out, it means that that person had died, but the date of death would normally be mentioned, which is not the case here)

No 3: He is interesting becausxe of his wife's name. But she is 5 years younger that "our" Marie Christine. He is born in "Meirup" - probably Mejrup in Ringkøbing Amt. She is born in Nørredraaby, there is a Nørre Draaby on Mors in Thisted Amt

The 1890 census is not 100% transcribed, so that might be the reason that we can't find them.

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No death record for Niels Christian Pedersen in Vejle up to 1899.

In the 1880 census, there are three women of about the right age with the approximate right name:

Marie Catrine Larsen, age 28, Odense Kobstad, Odense Amt
Marie Kathrine Larsen, age 30, Sandholts Lyndelse, Sollinge Herred, Svendborg Amt
Marie Kathrine Larsen, age 27, Borbjerg, Hjerm, Ringkobing

The Ringkobing entry makes the most sense geographically, but there are no Niels Christian Pedersens in Borbjerg in 1880.

There are too many entries that are simply Marie Lars(en, datter) in 1880 to narrow those down.

So it is looking as though Niels died and Marie and Maren moved to Vejle, before Maren was confirmed in 1894.

I think I am stuck until the 1890 censuses are transcribed. I spent some time looking through un-transcribed censuses in between Randers and Aarhus, but that will be too tedious in the end.

Answer 2

I have also (like Mary) tried to look for the marriage, but without any luck.

It is very strange that they are not to be found in the 1880 census. This is transcribed in full, so it should be easy to find them. i have loked in Randers, Aarhus and Vejle amter, but they are not there.

One would assume that they are already a married couple on Feb 1 1880 which is the day of the census, but of course there is no guarantee. Since they are not in the census for Ødum, but live there on March 27 same year, one would assume that they moved to the parish inthe short period between those two dates.

As Mary has already pointed out, it is likely that Niels Kristian had passed away before the marriage of Maren Sørine, otherwise, he would probably be the parent to give consent to the marriage (I am sorry to say that it was a male dominant time, women did not have much say in such matters)

There might be a mistake in the transcription of the 1880 census, I would try to go through the original census on www.sa.dk.

There are many Niels Kristian Pedersens in the 1880 census, but without a link to Marie Katrine, we can never be certain that we have the right person.

When searching, please bear in mind that this is the time where many married women began using their husbonds last name, so be sure to search for both Larsen and Pedersen and possibly also Larsdatter as she might have been born with that name. Also remember the variants in spelling Pedersen/Petersen, Kristian/Christian, Nils/Niels, Chathrine/Katrine/Kathrine/Catrine/Cathrine/Chatrine and Lars/Laurs/Lauritz/Laurits

Comments

Thanks for the tips!

I have generally been trying to do wildcard searches for names as much as possible. It still has not given any meaningful results.

I looked through the entire 1880 census for Odum and didn't find anything.

At one point I tried searching a minimal name with the occupation of "Bane%" (wildcard) to see if I could find Niels that way. Is there any other way that Banevogter might have been recorded - any alternate phrasing for that occupation? Or, possibly, are there records for that specific profession that I might be able to look through?

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The occupation "banevogter" might be written in two words "bane vogter" and is similar to "ledvogter". They would usually have a small house as a service residence.

There is a family on Taastrup Mark with the occupation Banevogter in 1890, this implies that Niels Christians job is taken over by someone else and the family has moved or the father might have died.

In the confirmation record you have found, Maren Sørine is listed as "af Vejle" and her parents as "paa Taastrup Mark" exactly as in her birth record. I suspect it is copied from her birth certificate, rather than being their actual residence at that time.

But still very strange that none of them are found in any of the 1880 or 1890 censuses.

Answer 3

I took another look at this family and noted that a Lars Christian Peter Nielsen is a godfather to both of Maren Sørine's children.

In Dec 1899 he is in Vejle ( https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127732#171617,28810469 ) and in 1901 he is a soldier in Fredericia at Korporalskolen (https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127732#171618,28810692.) 

I am wondering if you know anything about him, he could be a brother to Maren Sørine and if so and if he could be located, we might be able to track the parents' whereabouts.

It is a long shot, but consider that if he is a brother, his father is Niels Christian, his maternal grandfather is Lars and his paternal grandfather is Peter

Comments

It turns out that my theory was right. I found his confirmation in Vejle in 1897: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17127732#171616,28810193

According to the confirmation record, he is born in Aarhus in 1883. His birth record is here: https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?epid=17128528#173505,29190333

Unfortunately this does not add much information that helps us solve the whereabouts of the parents

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Thank you, Torben!

This is certainly Maren's brother, but as you said, there is nothing else that helps with where Niels Pedersen and Marie Larsen were, apart from the times that their children were born.

Photos of Maren when she was 17 were taken in Aarhus, including her engagement photo (on her profile). But Aarhus is quite large.