Are the Butler and Boteler families the same branch; just different surnames for same people?

+4 votes
246 views

Are Butler and Boteler the same family tree?  WikiTree, Geni and Ancestry sources interchange the family names:

I am unable to include the following document from Ancestry but the information is in the same format as https://archive.org/stream/visitationofcoun00inchit#page/256/mode/2up/search/langston; only under the name Norwood.

Norwood
                                                 Harl. MS. 1543,fo. 143
                     Arms.--Nono tricked
John Norwood of Leckhampton = Ellinor d. and coheir of John Gillford of Leckhampton
(arrow to Roger)
Roger Northwood of=... d. of Sir John Butler [Boteler*] of Badmigton in com. Gloster Knt.

(More info - Raffe, John, Henry Northwood)

* According to official record in the Heralds' College

 

Geni: mistilayne originally shared this on 03 Feb 2016
https://www.ancestry.com/mediaui-viewer/tree/8016145/person/24070995938/media/cd80ff09-76da-4b0e-a70f-f045edfe9409

About John Butler (Boteler)
        Sir John Boteler, Sheriff of Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, & Gloucestershire1
        M, b. circa 1407, d. 15 June 1477
        Father Ralph Boteler1 b. c 1384
        Mother Margaret de Berwick1 b. c 1388
        Sir John Boteler, Sheriff of Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, & Gloucestershire was born circa 1407 at of Badminton, Gloucestershire, England. He married Elizabeth Popham, daughter of Sir Stephen Popham, Sheriff of Hampshire & Wiltshire and Beatrice Bohun, in 1475.1 Sir John Boteler, Sheriff of Bedfordshire, Buckinghamshire, & Gloucestershire died on 15 June 1477 at of Badminton, Gloucestershire, England.
        Family 1
        Child
            William Boteler+ b. c 1428, d. b Jun 1467
        Family 2 Elizabeth Popham b. c 1439, d. a 1485
        Citations
        1.[S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 382.
        From: http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p3168.htm#i95164

    ____________________
        John BUTLER
        Born: ABT 1408, Great Badmington, Gloucestershire, England
        Died: 15 Jun 1477
        Father: Ralph BUTLER
        Mother: Margaret De BERWICK
        Married: ¿? ABT 1426
        Children:
            1. John BUTLER
            2. William BUTLER
        From: http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/BUTLER3.htm#John BUTLER1

    ____________
        Name Sir John Butler, Knight [1, 2]
        Born Badminton, Gloucestershire, England
        Died 15 Jun 1477
        Father Ralph Butler, b. Abt 1385, of, Badminton, Gloucestershire, England d. Aft Mar 1415-1416 (Age ~ 31 years)
        Mother Margaret de Berwick, d. Bef 5 Dec 1427
        Family 1 [Unknown]
        Children
        1. William Butler, b. of, Badminton, Gloucestershire, England d. Bef Jun 1467, of, Badminton, Gloucestershire, England
        Family 2 Elizabeth Popham, b. Cal 1439, d. Yes, date unknown
        Married 1475 [2]
        Sources
        [S127] #11833 The Ancestry of Mary Isaac, C.1549-1613: Wife of Thomas Appleton of Little Waldingfield, Co. Suffolk . . . (1955), Davis, Walter Goodwin, (Portland, Maine: Anthoesen Press, 1955), FHL book 929.242 Is1d; FHL microfilm 990,484 item 7., p. 146.
        [S23] Magna Carta Ancestry: A study in Colonial and Medieval Families, Richardson, Douglas, (Kimball G. Everingham, editor. 2nd edition, 2011), vol. 3 p. 382.
        From: https://histfam.familysearch.org//getperson.php?personID=I41693&tree=EuropeRoyalNobleHous
---

Pre-1500:  Butler-592
Ancestry.com interchanges the family names Butler and Boteler:
Name     John Butler (Boteler)
Birth     abt 1448 - Badminton, Gloucestershire, England
Death     January 7, 1524 (72-80) - Badminton, Gloucestershire, England

WikiTree
John Butler-592
Born 1448 in Badminton, G, England
Son of William Butler and Margaret Pers
Husband of Elizabeth Langston — married 1470 in Badminton, G, England
Descendants descendants
Father of Agnes (Butler) Drake and Alice Butler    
Died 7 Jan 1524 in Badminton, G, England

Name used in        Ancestry                      WikiTree
Alice  b 1480             Boteler                                Butler-590
John   b  1448            Boteler                                Butler-592
John   b 1407             Boteler                         Butler-593/ Boteler     
      

Additional information on Alice Boteler/Butler:
https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/family-tree-mark-carroll/I1061.php
copywrite material

 

WikiTree profile: John Butler
asked in Genealogy Help by George Kellogg G2G4 (4.6k points)
retagged by Darlene Athey-Hill
Every Norman baron had a butler, and many unrelated families adopted the surname.  But the numerous spellings are entirely interchangeable, and not at all significant or useful for identifying or separating people.

2 Answers

+1 vote
The Butler surname occurs frequently in Yorkshire, but not Boteler. London, England and surrounding counties plus Devon have both names. Click on the map of England & Wales, and compare states in the US for comparisons.

https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=Butler

https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=boteler
answered by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (1.7m points)
This only shows that a few Victorians thought it was posh to affect an obsolete medieval spelling.

See also Smythe, Feilding, ffrench, Hoghton, etc etc.
+3 votes
It does not necessarily mean the surnames are connected. It is generally agreed the origin of the name, Butler, is derived from the Latin name ( buticulurius ) and the French ( boutillier ). In " pre-Conquest times it refers to a person being a " butler " and was not a surname. The term butler at that time had a vastly different meaning than it does today. It meant a person who looked after the affairs of a king or nobleman; ( a corporate CEO ). It was often a person highly ranked in the nobility himself. The same person, at times, may have been referred to as " le Pincerna ", a Frankish term for butler.
answered by George Churchill G2G6 Mach 5 (53k points)
Agreed, it begins as Pincerna or le Boteler as it was Norman/Vikings in the Conquest of 1066. There are a few different lines of the Normans with different family coat of arms. The two lines I'm aware of  are Richard I and Ralph I in Lancashire/Warwickshire/Hertfordshire.

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