Help Needed Re-My Great,Grandmother Emily L.Flynn(Nee)Cooke

+3 votes
156 views

Hi Everyone,

I,m having few Problems Re-My Great-Grandmother Emily Louisa Flynn(Nee)Cooke,

I thought i had it all sorted with her Birth.ect

ill tell you what i know,

I Can't Seem to find a birth record for her,

Her full name was Emily Louisa Cooke, Born 1875 Aston Birmingham Eng,

The reason i know that's her birth year is that i have family death memoriam Cards, i know for certain she died on 25th June 1939 aged 64yrs of age in B,ham which would make her birth year 1875,

this has been quite a complicated one, Emily married 2 Flynn brothers in B,ham Eng

First Edward flynn in 1892 at St, Thomas's church, bath row, b,ham

On the marriage banns it states her age as 19yrs old in 1892, which would make her birth year 1873 & not 1875,

 Edwards Flynn on marriage banns is aged 22yrs,Born 1870, which is correct as have his catholic baptism record

She then found herself widowed from Edward Flynn before 1900, and living with her parents & children at in 1901, children from Edward flynn,

 Were lena(Selina) & Edward charles flynn

Marriage Banns Of

Name Emily Cooke
Gender Female
Age 19
Birth Date abt 1873
Marriage Date 26 Dec 1892
Marriage Place Birmingham, St Thomas, Warwickshire, England
Parish as it Appears Birmingham, St Thomas
Search Photos Birmingham, St Thomas, Warwickshire, England - False False
Father Charles Cooke
Spouse Edward Flynn
Household Members
Name Age
Edward Flynn  
David Flynn  
Emily Cooke  
Charles Cooke

then in 1902 she married David flynn edward's brother In Cook

Emily Louisa Cook
Registration Year 1902
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district Birmingham
Parishes for this Registration District Birmingham
Inferred County Warwickshire
Volume 6d
Page 43
Household Members
Name Age
Emily Louisa Cook  
David St Chad Flynn
 

But Shes marries David in her full name Emily Louisa Cook, instead of Cooke with Edward,

Also I'm not Sure why My Gr,Grandfather David Flynn, Born 1874, Has the St Chad in his name, But reason would be Is that's where David & Edward Flynn & Siblings were all Baptised at St, Chad's Cathedral Catholic Church In Hockley, B,ham 

Parents of emily flynn(nee)cook/e

were Charles Cooke & Louisa Soden

& Parents of the 2 flynn brothers Edward & David flynn were

David flynn, & Esther Selina Worrad

So Confusing! 

Any Help Or thoughts would be Great

Thanks

Regards

Lisa

in Genealogy Help by Lisa Burgess G2G2 (2.1k points)
edited by Lisa Burgess

3 Answers

+1 vote
 
Best answer

It would have been illegal for them to marry before the 1907 "Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act" that you can read about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deceased_Wife%27s_Sister%27s_Marriage_Act_1907

Therefore I deduce that the marriage between Emily and Edward had actually been annulled. Some supporting evidence for this theory is that she married under the name Cook (should have been Cooke of course). There's no death for Edward which fits but there is one in Q2 1893 who is described as 32. Edward would have been 22 so it's possible that this was him with the age at death misread.

This would have been just a few months after the marriage. Could Edward have been dying of tuberculosis? The marriage would not have been consummated and as everyone understood the circumstances a posthumous annulment would have been possible, especially if they were on close terms with their Catholic church. This is all speculative and could easily be wrong. If you're willing to risk wasting £9.50 you could order the death certificate for the Edward Flynn who died in 1893.

Also Esther Selina's name is given as Warrad in the children's births in the GRO index.

by Matthew Fletcher G2G6 Pilot (101k points)
selected by Lisa Burgess

Hi Matthew,

Thank you for your Post,

Funny enough I was Looking at that Exact Link Re-Deceased Wife's Sister Act Yesterday,

I have a Marriage Banns for Emily & Edward, She Married Edward In 1892 at St, Thomas's Parish Church, Bath Row, Birmingham, In Emily Cooke,

Emily Cooke
   
Age 19
Birth Date 1873
Marriage Date 26 Dec 1892
Marriage Place St.Thomas Parish, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father Charles Cooke
Spouse Edward Flynn
FHL Film Number 1545515
Reference ID p. 145, # 289
Household Members
Name Age
Emily Cooke  
Charles Cooke  
Edward Flynn  
David Flynn

 

Edward Flynn, 22yrs,

Witnesses-Joseph Worrall & Rose Flynn,

States Edward's Trade a Packer & Both Lived Latimer Place,

I had added all this Info On my fam tree On Ancestry a few Years ago,

Emily Louisa Flynn(Cooke) had two Children with Edward which were Lena Flynn & Edward Charles Flynn,

Edward & emily & children were Living with Emily's Parents

Charles Cooke & Louisa Cooke(Soden) at 15 Hunters Vale, Aston Mannor, B,ham

On the 1901 Census She Is still living with her Parents, Charles & Louisa Cooke, as Emily Flynn,& Children Lena & Edward Flynn, But Stated as Widowed,

Then In 1902 She Marries My Gr,Grandfather David Flynn(Edwards Brother) 

Name Emily Louisa Cook
Registration Year 1902
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district Birmingham
Parishes for this Registration District Birmingham
Inferred County Warwickshire
Volume 6d
Page 43
Household Members
Name Age
Emily Louisa Cook  
David St Chad Flynn
 

And Married David Flynn In Emily Louisa Cook, her full Birth name

 But what's Interesting On the 1901 Census when living with Parents Charles & Louisa Cooke, they are all In Cook Not (Cooke) as all other Census Records I have On the family

Also the David St Chad Flynn, I wonder Is it because Of the Area & the Catholic Church they may of married at, St, Chad's Hockley B,ham

Or did he actually use St Chad in his name, I do have David & Edward & Siblings Baptism records from St, Chad's Hockley, So do know they were all Baptised at the Church & their Parents Esther Selina Worrad & David Flynn Married there In 1866,

 

Also David Flynn Names His Daughter Amy St Frances Flynn,(My Grandfather David Flynn's Sister)

Amy St Frances Flynn
Registration Year 1903
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district Birmingham
Parishes for this Registration District Birmingham
Inferred County Warwickshire
Volume 6d
Page 25

And all On the 1911 Census

Name David Flynn
Age in 1911 36
Estimated Birth Year abt 1875
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place Birmingham
Civil parish Birmingham
Search Photos Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
County/Island Warwickshire
Country England
Street Address 5 Bk Of 22 Whitmore St Hockley Bham
Marital Status Married
Occupation General Labourer
Registration district Birmingham
Registration District Number 384
Sub-registration district All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel 11
Piece 18043
Household Members
Name Age
Head-David Flynn 36
Wife-Emily Flynn 34
Dau-Amy Flynn 7
-Dau-Mabal Flynn 4
Dau-Ivy Flynn 1
Niece-Cissie Flynn
Known as Lena(Selina)
Niece to David Flynn But Daughter of Emily & Edward Flynn
16

 My Grandfather David Flynn & Brother Joseph Flynn were Not On the 1911 Census with above Siblings as wasn't Born Untill 1912 & 1913

Also 3 Generations Of David Flynn..

All the earlier Flynn family came from Galway Eire before 1860, Still trying to find Birth Census Info for all them aswel..So frustrating I can tell you!!

Thank you all for your help guys

Best Wishes

Lisa B

+2 votes
Her birth was registered 1875, in the Birmingham registration District. Emily Louisa Cooke . (Birmingham, Vol. 6d, Page 84 q September 1875). Mother's maiden name given on GRO database as SODEN.
by R W G2G6 Pilot (260k points)
Thank you Ron,

So do you think its Possible that a mistake was made on the marriage Banns to first brother Edward Flynn, In 1892 then? making her birth year 19yrs old, 1873 & Married In Cooke

She Married Other Brother David Flynn In 1902 In Cook,

But I'm quite Confused as She would have still been a flynn Wouldn't She? Or does she go back to maiden name of Cook, even though widowed from Edward..Because the both marriages are Correct to my Knowledge..

Also does anyone Know if it was illegal to Marry your Widow's Sibling in 1902, Especially the Flynn family being Catholic?

Regards

Lisa
It is only speculation, but I suspect the the registrar made an error in registering the marriage. It was indeed legal for David to marry his sister in law.

As far as I can see, David's marriage is the only time that the use of a middle name, St. Chad is recorded.
Yes I found that Strange Ron,

Only thing i can think of is whether they may of mixed up the Area they lived in St Chads, Hockley,

But On the other hand My Gr,Grandfather David Flynn may of also used this name because found that he also Named One of his Children "Amy St Francis Flynn"

Well that's good to know that it was Indeed legal for him to marry his Sister-In-law,

I was told by my mother many years ago before delving into my family tree that her Grandmother had married the two Flynn Brothers(David Flynn Being her Grandfather)

Found it quite Challenging researching this side of the family, Especially My 3X, Gr,Grandfather David Flynn being Born In Galway Eire In 1841 & Also there being 3 Generations of "David Flynn" In the family with Cousins all David's Edwards, Patirick's .ect aswel..

Thank you for the help & Info Ron

Best Wishes

Lisa
+2 votes
There was also this birth registered 1875, in the Aston registration District. Emily Louisa Cooke . (Aston, Vol. 6d, Page 92 q December 1875).

There was also a this death registered 1876, in the Aston registration District. Emily Louisa Cook . (Aston, Vol. 6d, Page 227 q September 1876).
by R W G2G6 Pilot (260k points)

Hi Ron,

Thank you for all your help, Really Appreciate it,

This Must be the Correct Entrance or Birth for Emily

District. Emily Louisa Cooke . (Birmingham, Vol. 6d, Page 84 q September 1875). Mother's maiden name given on GRO database as SODEN

Because her mother's maiden name was  Louisa Soden

And the Family Memorial death Card I have for her States she died On 25th June 1939 aged 64yrs old, which makes her Birth year 1875,

Its Just the Marriage Banns of her first marriage to Edward that's Out 2yrs then, So Possible Mistake, So she would have been 17yrs of age..

 

Name Emily Cooke
Gender Female
Age 19
Birth Date abt 1873
Marriage Date 26 Dec 1892
Marriage Place Birmingham, St Thomas, Warwickshire, England
Parish as it Appears Birmingham, St Thomas
Search Photos Birmingham, St Thomas, Warwickshire, England - False False
Father Charles Cooke
Spouse Edward Flynn
Household Members
Name Age
Edward Flynn  
David Flynn  
Emily Cooke  
Charles Cooke

 

Also you have me Intrigued Now, Re-My Gr, Grandfather David Flynn, having the St Chad within his name, I'm going to go to St Chads, RC, Church in Hockley Soon to see if I can find Out more, I Know My Flynn Ancestors had a lot of dealings with this Church, Lots of the family, married there, Baptised & I assume, being Catholic had Confirmation, I have My Gr,Grandfathers & his siblings Baptism records from St, Chad's Hockley, B,ham, I want to find Out of the St Chad was a Mistake Or was meant to be, & Also I wonder why he names his daughter "Amy St Francis" Flynn I need to find Out if St Chad;s was where he married Emily Flynn(Nee)Cooke(Flynn) haha, 

Confusing this family Is..

I'm Pretty new to Wikitree Ron, so I'm trying find my way around this site & how things work on here, I tried to send you a Thank you, But couldn't find the thank you link!

So for Now ill say "Thank you" here

All the Best Ron

Lisa B

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