May I unlink Ann from Metacom's (King Philip's) profile?

+6 votes
273 views
I'd like help in determining if it's proper for me to unlink Ann (Philip-2) from Metacom (King Philip).  I do not believe there are any quality sources to backup the claim she is the daughter of King Philip, or that she is of Native American descent.  If quality sources are found in the future, this link can be made.  However, at this time I don't believe this statement can be made.  

My rationale and a draft profile for Ann can be seen at, https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Space:Draft_Profile_for_Review&public=1

I have tried a few times to contact the profile manage for Philip-2 but have had no success.  I realize this will require a last-name-at-birth change for Ann.  

All comments and recommendations are appreciated.  Thank you.
WikiTree profile: Anne Starkweather
in Genealogy Help by Robert Haviland G2G3 (3.1k points)

1 Answer

0 votes
I just decided that there was good reason to add Metacom to my tree.

There is no hard proof that I have found so far but I grew up having been told that my Mayflower era forbears included a Native American and my DNA supports that theory and my family has lived within 50 miles of Bristol for 350+ years.

Ann Philip is my 6th Great Grandmother and I have been reading everything I can find about this topic for several days now (I am an enthusiastic new ancestry explorer).

The Starkweather book says that h idea is "improbable" but that does not equate with untrue.

This discussion should be fairly lengthy but my Ancestry tree is public (Gary Lee Starkweather) and I have included many of the resources I have read as source for Ann, Metacomet, and his father.

I am just saying that I think the relation is reasonable and possibly even probable so I would be loathe to strike it without more lengthy discussion.

P.S. I am sorry to be so new and jump in with a strong opinion like this, but this is what I did all last week!  Timing LOL.
by Gary Starkweather G2G Crew (780 points)
Hi Gary,

Welcome to the "pool".

I too did a lot of research trying to track down sources to link Ann with Metacom.  Nothing definitive found.  As they say on WikiTree, genealogy without sources is mythology.  However, I do think "family lore" has a place in genealogy.  With WikiTree, it could be placed under the "Research Notes" section of the biographies.  Something that could offer hints or possible future avenues for research.  Keep researching!   :-)
Thanks Robert, I appreciate your thoughtful answer!

Yes, Family Lore should have a place but I think I understand that the level of proof is higher for links in WikiTree than inclusion in *my* or any other personal tree.

I am looking at it like criminal status... I have plenty of reasonable cause to do the equivalent of an *arrest* of Ann Philip naming her as a Native American woman and cause for suspicion that Metacomet is her father but I lack the hard evidence that would get me an *indictment* - never mind a *verdict* in favor of the argument.

I will include my stuff in notes or something later.

P.S. I think it is funny that this is the first article I saw when I looked at G2G - it was so appropriate to what I have been doing that I didn't even notice the date!

Thanks again.

Neil Rouse said...

i have a message from a direct matrilineal descendant of ann phillips starkweather (i have not asked permission to divulge her name or contact information but i think it has been posted on wikitree). her mt-dna came back amerindian indicating at the very least that ann (given the indigenous population at the time) was an algonkin indian of one of the handful of tribes living in that area. this information makes it much more likely than merely possible, that the claim is probably true.

June 11, 2016 at 2:01 PM http://bakerfamilytree.blogspot.com/2014/10/chapter-36-our-starkweather-ancestors.html

Hi Neil,

Keep researching.  Remember "more likely" is not proof.  And remember, a wrong assertion isn't right just because it's been repeated many times.  

I've heard about this descendant with "Native American" dna but have never seen any details on it.  I'm not saying Ann wasn't Native American, just that there is no proof.  It is possible.  As for the dna story, if you find the details we can add them to the "Research Notes" section of Ann's profile.  Definitely something that should be brought to the forefront.  However, even if there is Native American dna, it doesn't prove Ann was Metacom's daughter.  

See [[https://dna-explained.com/2012/12/18/proving-native-american-ancestry-using-dna/ | Roberta Estes' blog]] for some good information on Native American dna. 

This mystery will probably never be solved with adequate "proof".  I think the information as listed in [[Unknown-384527 | Ann's profile]] stands.   But keep looking.   :-)

 

 

Thanks for the reply!

The Baker site reasoning was the straw that finally tipped me into the Yes column.

There are other contemporary histories at universities and whatnot. I have read several in recent weeks and I am content with my decision.

At the same time, I have come to respect the rigor with which WT approaches these things. After all, even the sainted Dr. Carlton is merely a collection of family histories. I know because he credits my paternal grandmother who inadvertently, no doubt (hee hee), forgot to mention my grandfathers first wife or kids. Same with my great-great grandfather. The Doctor was also pretty openly opinionated. Much of his data is credited to "as told by" sources.

Yet he is considered a reliable source.

So I guess my point is that rigor is good, but I'm wishing there was a way to preserve this pseudo-history or family lore in context with the rest.

Notes and comments are fine but it would be great if there was a way to keep that record - duly marked somehow for posterity.

Next, I want to find my ancestor who was tried/died/hanged in the Witch trials.

What fun.
I figure I might as well list the other family lore points I remember as well...

A) is Ann

B) the ancestor tried as a witch

C) the story goes that the first non-native baby born in Connecticut was a Starkweather

D) descended from Governor of Mass. Bay Colony

E) related  to the Wright brothers

There was more but those I remember.

I grew up in NE CT and we went to some large Starkweather gatherings when I was a kid.

We always had the Starkweather book (3 copies lol) and the Bogue book (again multiple copies) but as youngsters they were pretty boring.

Parts of my family still live near Preston.

So there was plenty of family lore over the years. It must have some value somehow.

Onward!

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