Does WikiTree show that you're related to a Magna Carta Surety Baron but the relationships aren't "Confident"?

+17 votes

The goal of the Magna Carta project is to develop, review, and approve at least one trail for each Gateway Ancestor documented by Douglas Richardson in Magna Carta Ancestry.

Part of the review process of a developed trail is to select "Confident" for the relationship between parent and child. So a quick check on whether or not the Magna Carta connection that WikiTree finds for you is valid - all the relationships from about 1700 to the Magna Carta Surety Baron should be marked as "Confident".

Some of the trails reviewed/approved by the Magna Cart project before relationship status was an option in WikiTree may show "unknown", but we've been working on re-reviewing those early trails. If your trail shows "unknown" confidence pre-1700 but the profiles have Magna Carta badges, please post an answer below with the WikiTree IDs of the pre-1700 ancestor & the Magna Carta Surety Baron that person connects to so that the project can bump that trail up on the re-review to-do list.

If the pre-1700 profiles in your trail show "unknown" and the profiles are not badged by the Magna Carta project, you might want to consider joining the project, developing that trail, and posting it to Base Camp for review.

If you have any "uncertain" connections, you might want to opt for a different trail and/or different surety baron.

Cheers, Liz

Edit - Please Note: In June 2018, the Magna Carta Project changed its policy on setting relationship confidence. We no longer select "Confident" based on Richardson. See [this page] for details.

asked in The Tree House by Liz Shifflett G2G6 Pilot (305k points)
edited by Liz Shifflett

I checked my relationship against all the Surety Baron's and believe it or not I showed a relationship to all of them!  I would think this would be impossible.

Taylor Gilchrist

matching Lanvallei is unusual, I think, but otherwise - because of all the intermarriages among these prominent families - matching the other 16 Magna Carta Surety Barons (MCSBs) isn't unusual. The trails that the Magna Carta Project works on are lineal - parent/child - so if you were related as a cousin, then cross that one off the list. (I checked my connection to Lanvallei & found an Uncertain along the trail, so I can cross that one off my list! ... Your trail has an Uncertain too, but it's also not a lineal trail - he shows as a cousin, not an nth great-grand.)

I checked your trail to Quincy-266 (one of the sureties that has lots of Gateways) & you're a lineal descendant but have an Uncertain relationship in the trail: ... born England/died Massachusetts, so probably all of your MCSB connections are through him. I looked for Hardy as a Gateway Ancestor in Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry & there isn't one, so you'll want to check out some of the other paths WikiTree has between you and an MCSB to see if you can find one that doesn't go through Hardy-358. In addition to looking for a lineal trail with no Uncertains, you'll want to look for a trail with a lot of Confidents, and then look at the profiles that are marked as Confident to see if they have the Magna Carta Project Badge - if so, you've likely hit a good trail to develop (even if the profiles don't have the project's badge yet, if Douglas Richardson's work is listed as a source, you're headed in the right direction).

Hope all that made sense. The Magna Carta Project is one of the more involved projects, because the project reviews and approves a profile before it is badged - and the profile must part of a completed trail betweeen an MCSB and a Gateway Ancestor listed by Richardson before the project reviews it (as part of the trail) - it would probably be more accurate to say that the Magna Carta Project reviews/approves trails rather than profiles, although profiles do comprise the trails.

See more about the project on the Magna Carta Project page.

Cheers, Liz

ps - I should have said I looked in Richardson's index of Gateway Ancestors listed in the front matter of Volume I of Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry ... there may be a mention of a Hardy somewhere in the text (for example, as a spouse of a documented person), but there is no Hardy among the 240 Gateway Ancestors listed as those which Richardson documents in Magna Carta Ancestry (sorry for how convoluted that sounds, but there's been a lot of confusion because the Magna Carta Project defines Gateway Ancestor based Richardson's work & the generic definition of a gateway ancestor is, basically, "immigrant" - quite a bit broader than the project's scope).


Thank you so much for your in-depth summary of how I can approach this.  I want to leave this for future "Fritz" generations.  I find it so fascinating to be able to connect your family to actual historical events.

It's more than amazing to know that your ancestors just didn't exist, but that they were a part of making this country what it is!   When I learned about the Magna Carta in High School and a College American History course I had no idea I was studying about my ancestors.  What we are all doing is enabling future generations to read history books in class and educate the other students about how their ancestors participated.

Thanks Liz
I know what you mean! History was not one of my favorite subjects, but I'm fascinated now that it's connected to an ancestor!
Hello, I was just playing with the relationship finder and all but 3 are listed as anywhere from 24th to 28th great grandfathers. I will be looking into this further, as most are not confident connections.

4 Answers

+8 votes

My trail to William Mowbray-151 goes through his grandson Roger Mowbray-39, who has the badge but has unknown confidence for his father Roger.

answered by Karen Tobo G2G6 Pilot (111k points)
Thanks Karen!

Base camp shows that the Magna Carta Project reviewed  trails to 7 gateways in 2015, which was before the relationship option... none of the trails are marked as confident, and several of the profiles have slipped in quality. Mowbray-151 is now top on my Magna Carta to-do list.

Cheers, Liz

one down - I confirmed against Richardson the relationships for the MC-badged profiles in the trail from [[Humphrey-70]] to [[Mowbray-151]] (which includes his son [Mowbray-84]). A couple of the profiles along the trail need a good edit & I think most could be polished a bit.

Also, I can't vouch for all the collateral profiles attached to the trail's badged profiles. Normally the project's review includes making attached profiles presentable and ensuring they should be attached. I did not do that in my re-review in the interest of getting the trail marked confident sooner rather than later, even though I noticed a lot of attached profiles that needed work & maybe needed to be detached. I'll keep Mowbray-151's trails on my to-do list for a while. (And I've still got 6 other trails to check on for him.)

Cheers, Liz

+7 votes

Isabel Houghton Farrar (Houghton-914 ) is marked as confident for both parents Alice Morley(Morley-826) and Richard Hoghton (Hoghton-26), but reviewing the parent profiles and sources, I don't see any mention or sourcing for Isabel to be their daughter. Alice Morley's children are pretty well documented and named and don't include an Isabel, and Richard has a daughter Isabel with Alice Ashton, but she married a different person. 

So I find this link suspect, even though it is marked confident. Would love to either have the link removed since it is giving inaccurate links, or proven with sources.

answered by Laura Harlow G2G6 (8.7k points)
Looks like they've been detached. For ease of checking:


"Alice" Elizabeth (Morley) Hoghton:

Richard Hoghton:

I found a deleted reference in a merged bio (duplicate that had been merged into Morley-826), but cannot figure out why it was given as a source for creating her as mother of Isabel/wife of Richard Hoghton:
+4 votes

When I put MC Baron Saer de Quincy and his descendant Alan (Zouche) la Zouche [Zouche-2] into the Relationship Finder, I saw this:

1. Alan is the son of Roger (Zouche) de la Zouche [unknown confidence] 
2. Roger is the son of Ellen (Quincy) la Zouche [unknown confidence] 
3. Ellen is the daughter of Roger (Quincy) de Quincy [unknown confidence] 
4. Roger is the son of Saher (Quincy) de Quincy [confident] 

All but Ellen have a Magna Carta badge, FWIW.

answered by John Kingman G2G6 Mach 1 (10.5k points)
Thanks! The project completed/approved many trails before WikiTree added the option to set a confidence level for the relationship between parent and child. I'll add them to my "re-review" list.

Cheers, Liz
Thanks, Liz, I'll post any others I run across.

Rgds, John
+3 votes
here is one that's in the list and is legit needs magna carta gateway tag.

it was put in the trails and I trail checked it, "Elizabeth(Marshall)Lewis"

I'm confident as can be in certainty XD
answered by Troy Smith G2G6 Mach 5 (52.7k points)

Hi Troy! Please see [Base Camp] for explanations about trails. That profile is appropriately in the project's CATEGORY for Gateway Ancestors but it is not yet eligible for the Magna Carta project box for Gateways. All of the profiles on the trail between Elizabeth and a surety baron need to be developed and then the completed trail reviewed & approved by a Magna Carta project member (see the tables at [Base Camp] for trails project members are working on).

Cheers, Liz

I really don't get it Liz, i'm sorry can't do inline citation. I'm just not on par with I.T. (:

but I'll try thx

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