Isn't it an invalid use of the uncertain tag to show Robert Carver as son of Mayflower John Carver?

+13 votes
257 views
Governor John Carter is well documented as childless when embarking on Mayflower 1, and he and his wife both died in the spring of 1621. This seems certain evidence against Robert being the Governor's son. Nothing uncertain about it. Suggest unattaching Robert from John, and making John Carver PGM PPP.
WikiTree profile: John Carver
in Genealogy Help by Weldon Smith G2G6 Mach 1 (16.8k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith
Referencing this discussion, I have requested (via profile comment)  the profile managers of Carver-254 to please remove Robert link as son of John, or to show cause for non-removal. I volunteered to remove any existing Robert link on 15th September, absent cause.

6 Answers

+7 votes
 
Best answer

Yes, Robert Carver absolutely should be disconnected from John Carver as father.  In fact, the more common claim seems to be that Robert was a brother of John Carver, but neither is true. 

Several of the earlier writers make the claim of relationship, but without any evidence.  It seems these kind of connections were often made based on nothing more than the same last name.  Unfortunately, these are the books which are out of copyright and available online without subscription.  From there, the mis-information has been added to user-contributed data bases.

Another issue is Robert's wife's maiden name as Turner.  User-contributed data bases are the sources on the Christian Turner profile, and William Jones calls her Christian _____ in his article for NEHGR 88:215.

The profile for John Carver also claims two marriages.  Anderson reports only the one to Catherine (White) Leggatt, and even that is based on scanty evidence.  Alexander White had daughters (Catherine, Bridget, Jane, and Francis), all apparently unmarried when he wrote his will in 1594.  Then his wife's will of 1599 mentioned "my son Leggatt and his wife" and "their daughter Marie" along with daughters Bridget, Janie, and Frances.  Bridget White married in 1604 to Rev. John Robinson.  Then on 14 June 1620, John Robinson wrote a letter to John Carver as "my dear friend and brother, whom with yours I always remember in my best affection."  This is not conclusive, because John Robinson also addressed other members of the church as "brother."

I added the information from Anderson to both Robert and John's profiles, in an effort to be helpful, especially to those who do not subscribe to Anderson's work.

Also agree with Ellen, it is just courteous to confer with the project and/or managers before disconnecting, but it does need to be done.

Also cannot find an appropriate source for 1st wife of John Carver and maiden name of Catherine, wife of Robert Carver.

by Cynthia B G2G6 Pilot (126k points)
selected by Weldon Smith
+7 votes

Yes, it appears that [[Carver-253|Robert Carver]] should be disconnected from [[Carver-254|John Carver]] as his father. Various people who have researched the family have made this point but apparently no one has had the courage to disconnect them. Since the better-documented profile is that of a Mayflower passenger, it seems to me that one of our Mayflower specialists should weigh in to verify the disconnection.

by Ellen Smith G2G Astronaut (1m points)
Thanks for retagging. Of course Mayflower Project should weigh in. My bad to omit them from notification.
+4 votes
Since I added the uncertain tag, perhaps I should explain why.

I was looking for PGM gateway ancestors and came across John Carver and his wife Catherine via the connection to Robert Carver. This would have been a new Mayflower connection for me, but I was uncomfortable with the validity of the connection. I made the comments and added the uncertain tag for this reason.

When I checked the Mayflower Quick Links on the Relationship Finder and John Carver did not show up as an ancestor, and this turned out to be because it used the Carver-538 profile, not the Carver-254 profile.  Sometime recently Carver-538 was merged with Carver-254 and that is probably when the connection was made to Robert Carver.
by John Kingman G2G6 Mach 1 (16.8k points)
+2 votes
Referencing this discussion, I have requested (via profile comment)  the profile managers of Carver-254 to please remove Robert link as son of John, or to show cause for non-removal. I volunteered to remove any existing Robert link on 15th September, absent cause.
by Weldon Smith G2G6 Mach 1 (16.8k points)
+2 votes

Both Carver-254 (shown as Robert's father) and White-11597 (shown as Robert's mother) should be disconnected from Carver-253

by John Kingman G2G6 Mach 1 (16.8k points)
Removed White-11597 as mother of Robert Carver-253.
+5 votes
Updating this thread because people continue to reconnect John Carver and Katherine White as parents of Robert Carver.

I've detached them AGAIN and this time placed the profile (of Robert Carver) under the protection and management of the PGM project. Hopefully this will keep the inaccurate relations from being connected again.

Thanks everyone for your hard work on this set of profiles.
by Jillaine Smith G2G6 Pilot (693k points)
Thanks Jillaine for your watchful presence and strong support for a 'no fake news' stance at WT. The evidence be damned attitude of some WT players continues to confound and distress. PGM is one of the stronger projects, in my limited experience here, with respect to enforcement of WT evidence rules.
You’re welcome, Weldon.

And ... I found the reattachment or wrong parents by reading my weekly email update from wikitree. So if you’re tempted to just skip right over that email or delete it without reading it (I often am so tempted), I encourage us all to review the “Recent Changes” section. Look especially for changes made by people you don’t recognize.

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