How to I categorise place names in Prussia

+7 votes
387 views
I want to categorise some profiles to - Tucheim,  Jerichower II, Saxony, Prussia - which I believe is the historical place name.

There doesn't seem to be a county listed for Prussia in the countries under Europe (en).  I finally found it in Former Countries in Europe. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Prussia

I would have thought Prussia might have its own country category (although I see from Wikipedia it was a germanic state) and also be listed under Germany?  Would it hurt to be under either Europe (en), Germany or both too?

How should I approach categorising te actual place of Tucheim, I'm not sure from what's there already.  I believe in the current day it is part of Brandenburg, Saxony-Anhalt, which both seem to have separate categories under States of Germany.  Any advice appreciated.
asked in Policy and Style by Veronica Williams G2G6 Pilot (114k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith

2 Answers

+4 votes

Tucheim is a village and a former municipality in the Jerichower Land district, in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany. Since 1 July 2009, it is part of the town Genthin.

So I would place it under Saxony-Anhalt

answered by Heidi van Os de Man G2G6 (9.9k points)

Just a note from the location field style guide.

Here are the standards adopted by the WikiTree community for what to enter in birth, death, and marriage location fields.

Our guiding principle is the same as the one for Name Fields: "use their conventions instead of ours."

Applied to locations, this means using place names in native languages and using the names that people at the time used, even if they now no longer exist.

Place names, and even boundaries, change over time. They also have different names in different languages. We aim to use the name that was used by the people in that place, at the time of the event you're recording. This standard is often difficult or even impossible to apply, but it is an ideal that members from all over the world can agree upon.

For example, when recording the birth place of someone born in Port Royal, Acadia, in the 1600s, you should use "Port-Royal, Acadie" rather than the English "Port Royal, Acadia" or the present day "Port Royal, Nova Scotia, Canada".


Which makes it confusing so if you used that category Veronica spoke of would not you than put it under [[Category: Saxony-Anhalt, Prussia]] or would it be [[Category: Jerichower Land, Saxony-Anhalt, Prussia]]

Remember where trying to use names that people at the time used, even if they now no longer exist.

Thanks for your help on this Heidi and Steve.

From what it says on Wikitree  location fields, Tucheim only became part of Saxony-Anhalt post 1972.  My categories relate to pre 1850.  Should it be in a lot of places? So should 

Level 1.  

[[Category: Prussia]]

Level 2

[[Category: Saxony-Anhalt, Prussia]] (add this also to [[Category: Saxony-Anhalt, Germany]])

[[Category: Jerichower Land, Saxony, Prussia]] - this should also be linked to [[Category: Saxony, Prussia]] 

Level 3

[[Category: Tucheim, Prussia]]

and a corresponding one for Germany? to cater for the new world?

 

Level 1.  

[[Category: Germany]

Level 2

[[Category: Saxony-Anhalt, Germany]

Level 3

[[Category: Tucheim, Germany]]

+4 votes

There are two concepts conflated here: How to categorize and how to fill in the location field on the profile. Categorization follows the modern political structure, for Tucheim which is a part of Genthin since 2009 that would be Tucheim, Genthin, Sachsen-Anhalt, Bundesrepublik Deutschland. See Explanation about the agreed structure for regional categories used for locations in Germany.

Location fields are different altogether. They vary with the political changes over time:

  • before 1680: Tucheim, Erzstift Magdeburg, Heiliges Römisches Reich
  • 1680 - 1701: Tucheim, Herzogtum Magdeburg, Kurfürstentum Brandenburg, Heiliges Römisches Reich 
  • 1701 - 1806: Tucheim, Herzogtum Magdeburg, Mark Brandenburg, Königreich Preußen, Heiliges Römisches Reich
  • 1806 - 1815: Tucheim, Herzogtum Magdeburg, Mark Brandenburg, Königreich Preußen
  • 1815 - 1866: Tucheim, Provinz Sachsen, Königreich Preußen, Deutscher Bund
  • 1867 - 1871: Tucheim, Provinz Sachsen, Königreich Preußen, Norddeutscher Bund
  • 1871 - 1918: Tucheim, Provinz Sachsen, Königreich Preußen, Deutsches Reich
  • 1918 - 1945: Tucheim, Provinz Sachsen, Freistaat Preußen, Deutsches Reich
  • 1945 - 1947: Tucheim, Provinz Sachsen, Freistaat Preußen, Sowjetische Besatzungszone Deutschland
  • 1947 - 1952: Tucheim, Sachsen-Anhalt, Deutsche Demokratische Republik
  • 1952 - 1990: Tucheim, Bezirk Magdeburg, Deutsche Demokratische Republik
  • 1990 - 2009: Tucheim, Sachsen-Anhalt, Bundesrepublik Deutschland
answered by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (445k points)
Thanks Helmut, I will check that out

So following the German category guide for the 1850's and today is covered should it be-

* Germany and Prussia (top levels for Country) and Bundesrepublik Deutschland

   * Sachsen-Anhalt, Germany 

     * Genthin, Germany

          * Jerichow II, Genthin ( it says this is the rural county  - 1994-06-30)

              * Tucheim, Prussia

    

 

My understanding is that categories should use the present day political organization you are dealing with and not historic states. Following the structure used by German Roots your example would look like this:

  1. Deutschland and Germany as top level categories
  2. Sachsen-Anhalt, Deutschland and Saxony-Anhalt, Germany as second level
  3. Landkreis Jerichower Land, Sachsen-Anhalt
  4. Genthin, Sachsen-Anhalt
  5. Tucheim (Genthin), Sachsen-Anhalt

    The county (#3) is a Landkreis and is called Jerichower Land. It came about by merging the former counties Burg and Genthin plus adding a few other localities in 1994. It roughly covers the area that used to be the Prussian counties Jerichow I and Jerichow II.

    Tucheim (#5) used to be an independent town but was incorporated into Genthin in 2009. The category structure for Germany proposes for such situations to use the name of the city the town was incorporated into in brackets. 

    I have a number of ancestors who emigrated from Prussia in the 1840s and 1850s. I am also struggling to work out how to categorise them and correctly record their birth places.

    For example for one ( Wittwer-23 ), I have a family history book (written in 1986) that says "Gottfried was born at Grossblumberg near Krossen on the Oder River in the Province of Mark, Brandenberg, Prussia on 11th November, 1835. The town is now Brody, Ordzanskie, Poland. It became so in 1949 after World War II, when the country was given to U.S.S.R. as part of the Potsdam Agreement between U.S.S.R., U.S.A. and Great Britain. Brody is approximately 275 km. east of Frankfurt and 625 km. west of Warsaw. Krossen is now called Krosno."

    What is the correct place to record for his birth, and categories to assign to his profile? I suspect I will end up with about 16 ancestor places to work out things like this for.

    Thanks,

      Scott
    For categorization purposes it's Brody, Sulechów, województwo lubuskie, Rzeczpospolita Polska.

    For location in 1835 it would be Groß Blumberg, Provinz Brandenburg, Königreich Preußen, Deutscher Bund.
    Thank you. I have added a category with that name, but have no idea how to fit it into the category hierarchy properly :-(

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