New Netherland Settler to merge: Jans-579 (Jenneken Jans [van Sandt]) [closed]

+8 votes
64 views

Jenneken Jans of Arnhem, NL https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Jans-579 has a duplicate that needs to be merged.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Jans-844

She married both men, one attached to each profile, as can be seen from her church records on her profile.

Her current LNAB is what is recorded in her New Netherland church records, but it appears that her name was recorded as Janssen at her marriage in the Netherlands.

Are there any issues or concerns? If not I'll change the LNAB to Janssen and merge the duplicate in 30 days.

Update: It has been determined that the letter in question is a ſ or "long s" ("lange s") and that the LNAB should be Jansen.

WikiTree profile: Jannetje Jansen
closed with the note: Task complete!
asked in Genealogy Help by Carrie Quackenbush G2G6 Mach 7 (72.3k points)
closed by Carrie Quackenbush

1 Answer

+3 votes

The last name is Jansen not Janssen, the (long)  in Dutch records stands for just one s not two, and it seems that in English records this same letter sometimes stands for or is interpreted as a double 's', so guess that's perhaps causing confusion ?  The link is from wat staat daer (what does it say/mean), a Dutch Paleography course, you can try different links from the drop down menu to see and learn letters, words and texts from different periods, here is another one that also has some interesting info about abbreviations that sometimes were used in records as well.

answered by Bea Wijma G2G6 Pilot (243k points)
edited by Bea Wijma
Fun quiz from wat staat daer. I was pleased to find that I got them all correct on the first try! (It would have been more difficult if I didn't have the possible choices lined up in front of me.)
Yes it's a great way to learn the ancient handwriting eeh and you all are so experienced and so great at reading the Dutch records now, I would be surprised if you would not have them correct :P

It's a great help for the sometimes so really hard to decipher records or notarial deeds and I use(d) it a lot. The words are even more fun :D

O. I see. I went through the rest of the Arnhem church book and the transcribers are using ß (NL) for 'double s'.

OpenArchives has even gone so far as to assume that Janß in that book is short for Janssen.

See Lubbert Janß, second entry on the right page https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89WK-GS4L?cc=2038506&wc=SMHS-L2H%3A1292637101%2C346630902%2C346657301

and in OpenArchives https://www.openarch.nl/show.php?archive=gld&identifier=2CEA4E76-601D-4092-A281-CF1139587BF1&lang=en&six=3

Thank you for the kind lesson.

My pleasure Carrie and yes transcribing the β (in the Netherlands we call it the Ringel s) as 'ss' (or 'sz' ) is correct. This was or is done when the ability to produce an β is not available, for example, on older typewriters or in domain names on the internet, one writes ss. In the past they also used the sz (es-tset). But if it's possible the most correct way to use, write or type it, of course would be Janβ. 

But on the internet/online archives and for us also I think, transcribing it as ss (or sz) probably is still done and works better, because it would make them much easier to find in a search and could prevent new duplicates ?

Transcribing Janβ as Janssen is a bit tricky, it might be correct, if you transcribe or would like to write them all with the full meaning of the abbreviated endings of the patronymics perhaps, but it would be a bit the same as saying we now are going to change for example how we are writing or using all patronymics with the abbreviated endings, like Jansz, Jans, Jansdr and we now are going to write those with the full meanings, it sounds or looks easy perhaps, but it would create a whole lot of new and even more problems, because it would depend on the time and the place if the full meaning of the abbreviation or the ending of the patronymic was Janssoen, Janssoon or maybe Janssen, or perhaps even Janssone and so on. 

If we go even  further back in time, they would for example write patronymics or names like this: Jan Heer Janssoen or Jan Heer Jansone (translates as Jan lord Janssoen /soon/sone and they all mean= Jan son of lord Jan) (in the middle ages they often wrote the full words for son or daughter the spelling could variate of course, so it could be soen, sone, soon, doghter, dochter)

So I would not transcribe or change the patronymics to the longer versions if the original records only show the ones with the abbreviated endings. You can transcribe the example to Janss or perhaps even Jansz, to make sure they are easy to find and to prevent duplicates, but the abbreviated ending in Janss could mean Janssoen, Janssoon, Janssone or Janssen so there would be several options and either one might be correct for that time and place, it would not make things easier. ;)

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