Was Mary, daughter of Gabriel Champion de Crespigny, the wife of Oliver Silverthorn?

+4 votes
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It has been asserted the Mary daughter of Gabriel Champion de Crespigny is the wife of Oliver Silverthorn.. 

 

I have not been able to find any records to support this assertion. 

 

I have found Mary's death in London. She died aged 4. There are, in my opinion,  no other possibilities as to who the child who was buried was. That is the only possible Mary Crespigny was the infant baptised four years earlier.

I have also searched for the marriage record of Oliver Silverthorne - there is no possible marriage at Amesbury. Mary Crepigney (sic) was christened 30 March 1688 at St Margaret's Westminster, Middlesex, daughter of Gabriel and Isabella. Mary Crispigny (sic) was buried 22 March 1692 at St Martin in the Fields, Westminster, England. Images of the registers can be retrieved via FindMyPast. I can upload if necessary.

I understand that the various ancestry treees are based on the following research but I have not found any records to support the assertions of the marriage (Gabriel was injured while recruiting in Wigan) :

From  http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/silverthorn/321/

"Secret Silverthornes

Brief extract from my work:

Mary's father was Captain Gabriel Champion de Crespigny.Whilst recruiting in Wigan circa. 1710 he was turned upon by an angry mob who stoned him.Surgeons referred him to The Bath in Somerset & Avon to recover from his injuries.It is more than likely that Mary went to visit her father and met Oliver who worked for her family as a groom.They fell in love and eloped, going first to Amesbury in Wiltshire, then on to Andover in Hampshire, where they settled and had their family.She was punished by her family by being disowned -- what she gave up for Oliver was incredible.

The family left England and settled in New Jersey, America.It appears all was well until circa. 1766.Whilst in America one of Mary's sons married an Indian princess -- the daughter of a Chief, and she was my great grandmother, many times removed.I am not positive, but her name could be Rubina Sasseba.I have the names Rubina Cisseba in our family history, it is probably phonetic and handed down through the generations.I believe the Sasseba's were Chippewa chiefs.

In 1766, for some reason, it appears that the family were forced onboard a ship bound for England with no more than they could carry, and very little money.On the journey the Princess died and was buried at sea.After finally reaching England it was not long before Mary also died.

Mary's family, the Champion de Crespigny's were one of the most noble families in France, who could trace their ancestry back to the Crusades.One of their ancestors fought under St. Louis.They were forced, under the Edict of Nantes,to seek refuge in England as they were Huguenots.Mary's grandparents were the Count and Countess de Vierville, whose lands were in Normandy, France.Their pedigree can be found on the Internet.

This is all the information I am prepared to release at the moment as I am still working on the story.

Bas Thorne/Silverthorn"

 

WikiTree profile: Mary Champion De Crespigny
in Genealogy Help by Anne Young G2G6 Mach 3 (36.8k points)
retagged by Anne Young
Frank 'Monty' Reed, who was a noted Silverthorn(e) researcher, erected a monument to the Silverthorne family in the Hey Library, Steeple Ashton Church. He does not give a surname to Oliver Silverthorn's wife - she is merely stated to be Mary : https://www.silverthornefamily.co.uk/news-area/

 

Mary Champion

 in the England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

 

      Name: Mary Champion
      Gender: Female
      Burial Date: 2 Dec 1746
      Burial Place: Grove, Nottingham, England
      FHL Film Number: 503498

      Source Information

      Ancestry.com. England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.

      Original data: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013.

       

       

      Mary Champion

       in the London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

      VIEWLondon, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

          Name: Mary Champion
          Gender: Female
          Record Type: Christening (Baptism)
          Baptism Date: 31 Mar 1689
          Baptism Place: St Giles, Cripplegate, City of London, London, England
          Father: John Champion
          Mother: Franc Champion
          Register Type: Parish Register

          Source Citation

          London Metropolitan Archives; London, England; Church of England Parish Registers, 1538-1812; Reference Number: P69/GIS/A/002/MS06419/011

          Source Information

          Ancestry.com. London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.

           

           

          Silverthorne, Mary

           in the UK, Extracted Probate Records, 1269-1975

           

              Name: Silverthorne, Mary
              Dates: 1657
              Place: General, England
              Book: Calendar of Wills in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury 1657-1660 (Will)
              Collection: England: Canterbury - Wills Proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 1657-1660
              Text: Silverthorne, Mary, wid., East Towne, Wilts. 1657 467

              Source Information

              Ancestry.com. UK, Extracted Probate Records, 1269-1975 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2009.

              Original data: Electronic databases created from various publications of probate records.

               

               

              Mary

               in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

                  Name: Mary
                  Gender: Female
                  Spouse: Oliver Silverthorne
                  Child: Thomas Silverthorne

                  Source Information

                  Ancestry.com. England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.

                  Original data: England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013.

                   

                   

                  Mary Silverthorne

                   in the England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980

                      Name: Mary Silverthorne
                      Gender: Female
                      Spouse: Oliver Silverthorne
                      Child: Thomas Silverthorne

                      Source Information

                      Ancestry.com. England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2008.

                      Original data: Genealogical Society of Utah. British Isles Vital Records Index, 2nd Edition. Salt Lake City, Utah: Intellectual Reserve, copyright 2002. Used by permission.

                       

                      Thanks - I have read through the will. There seems no reference to any relatives called Champion de Crespigny and no link to place her as the daughter of Gabriel Champion de Crespigny.
                      The christening of Mary Champion in 1689 is for the daughter of John Champion - not a relative of the Champion de Crespigny family.
                      Exactly. Oliver married Mary Champion, just not the royal de C.

                      3 Answers

                      +1 vote

                      I believe this might be the source of the story of Mary being the daughter of Gabriel and wife of Oliver. " Notes from Barry J Thorne, Hampshire, England: "Mary's father was Captain Gabriel Champion de Crespigny. Whilst recruiting in Wigan circa. 1710 he was turned upon by an angry mob who stoned him. Surgeons referred him to The Bath in Somerset & Avon to recover from his injuries. It is more than likely that Mary went to visit her father and met Oliver who worked for her family as a groom"    The question is who is Barry J Thorne and how does he know this?  The only reference I could find to a Barry J Thorne is someone who works for a company (or worked because if you query for him at the company nothing comes up) that is a specialist legal group in the UK.  No idea if this is the same person or not.   

                      But I could find nothing written by Barry J Thorne that speaks to this issue other than the note that is referred to?  

                      Your research indicates from actual records that a child named Mary, daughter of Gabriel was buried in 1672.  Is it possible there were two Marys with the same last name?  Perhaps a later sister or a cousin and the wrong parents have been noted... or is this entire story a fabrication and if so why?

                      I worked on this as part of the Integrators Project supporting g2g postings.  

                      by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (688k points)
                      Thanks for your reply

                      I have also not found any other references to Barry Thorne's research nor have I been able to contact him to find out how he knows this. And nor have I been able to find information to confirm his hypothesis.

                      It is not possible that there are two Marys of the same name in my view - Champion de Crespigny is a very very unusual name - it was only created when the family fled France as Huguenot refugees. There were three sons, Pierre did not marry and then there was Thomas and Gabriel. Their children are well documented, there are numerous family wills, family papers including a pedigree book recording births, deaths and marriages.

                      Barry Thorne suggests that Mary was disinherited which would explain why she would not be mentioned in any will. I don't find this plausible.

                      I think the story is a fabrication but not sure why. I would be quite happy if it were not a fabrication and we found some records.

                      I think though having found the burial of Mary Crespigny it is unlikely that we will find any records to support the story as there are no records to support events that did not happen.
                      I am sending you a private message with possible contact information for him.
                      +1 vote

                      Ted Marmo, coordinator of The Silverthorn(e) name study, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Silverthorn(e)_Name_Study , has written to me 

                       

                      I added a note to Mary's entry in Wikitree stating that Reed HSF  gives no surname and a link to the page on Wikitree where this is discussed https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/465600/daughter-gabriel-champion-crespigny-wife-oliver- 

                      I would like to proceed and create a separate profile for Mary the wife of Oliver.

                      by Anne Young G2G6 Mach 3 (36.8k points)
                      +1 vote
                      I have created the profile of Mary, wife of Oliver Silverthorn, in accordance with the research published by Monty Reed at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Unknown-389278
                      by Anne Young G2G6 Mach 3 (36.8k points)

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