Did the royal descendant Alice Fulford marry Thomas Dowrish?

+4 votes
I think the answer to the question is no, but since it involves Alice Fulford who is a descendant of King Edward I of England, I want to get some feedback before making changes in the profiles which I adopted.

Alice Fulford (b. ca. 1463; d. 1489) ( https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Fulford-43 ), descendant of King Edward I, is currently connected as the wife of Thomas Dowrish ( https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Dowrish-5 ).  However, Thomas Dowrish apparently died in 1464, so his son Richard Dowrish was presumably born by the early 1460s.  That makes Richard about the same age or even older than his supposed mother. Something is definitely wrong.  

My old notes (from back in the 1980s) instead have Thomas Dowrish married to an older Alice Fulford (b. 1417?), daughter of a Henry Fulford (but I didn't record the source).  This make much more sense chronologically.  Of course, this means Thomas Dowrish didn't marry a royal descendant.  Or am I missing something?
WikiTree profile: Alice Dowrish
in Genealogy Help by Kenneth Kinman G2G6 Mach 6 (60.8k points)
edited by Kenneth Kinman

1 Answer

+5 votes
Best answer
The ancestry currently given for Alice Dowrish and the rest of the Dowrish line is incorrect.  Alice was not a Courtenay.  She was Alice Stawell.

I actually studied this family in extreme detail with the help of Dr. Matt Tompkins and Jakob Mirza Lipka.  The research included the finding and translation of a fair number of Chancery suits and unpublished IPMs involving the Dowrish family.

Proof, evidence and discussion of relationships turns out to be fairly complicated.  I think I will make a wikitree freespace page to collect the evidence and try to give a coherent argument as to relationships.  It will take some time but I will try to get to this soon (they are my ancestors also).

If I don't completely rewrite these profiles in the next 2 weeks, remind me please.
by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (211k points)
selected by Kenneth Kinman

       I am really looking forward to seeing your revisions.  If I can be of any help, let me know.  I can abandon her profile if you need to adopt it.

I am beginning to remember how interesting the Dowrish problem was, and how much of a headache it gave me.

I have begun placing my references here: Dowrish Notes.

There are several contradictory statements in the chancery suits and several problems which don't make sense.  I going to have to go back through it but I am not sure we ever came up with a pedigree which matched all of the evidence.

I would actually appreciate it if you abandoned the Dowrish profiles or added me as a co-Profile Manager.

Some of the documents are very interesting to read, such as the deposition of Thomas Dowrish which explains how West Ogwell came to be held Hugh Courtenay, Earl of Devon.  Essentially, John Boyville the first husband Margaret Reke lived in fear that his grandson-in-law John Wele was attempting to murder him to obtain his land.  This John Boyville essentially gave West Ogwell to the Courtenay's in exchange for protection.  Hugh Courtenay lived up to his end of the bargain by sending his men out to capture and imprison John Wele.

:"the saide John Wele apassyng euyll disposed persone ... the saide John Wele wolde nygh hym selfe to the saide maner labored all the menes that he coude to shorte the life of the saide John Bovile ... and also putte hym at dyuerse tymes in grete fere of his life so ferre that he durste not abide in his owne house nor come to his parisshe Churche ... the saide John Bovile thelder heryng herof fered the more of his life and for suerte therof the same John bargayned with the saide Sir Hugh that he shulde have to hym and his heirs the saide maner after the deth of hym and the saide Margaret his wife ... the saide John Wele and was thervpon condempned in a grete summe and was putte in prison for execucion and there bode stille many yeres so that the same John Bovile euer after leved in reste and without fere of the saide John Wele "

I have added you as co-Profile Manager of the five Dowrish profiles.  I took a quick look at the Dowrish Notes, and you have obviously done a great deal of work on this.  I'll study all of it when I have time.



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