Two profiles on merge list

+5 votes
There are 2 profiles on wiki needing to be merged.  [DeBussel-5] and [DeBussell-1].  I have not yet become familiar with the naming practice so long ago, the 12th century, that I am comfortable merging them.  My hesitation is mostly due to the fact that I think they are the same person, but it looks like her maiden name has become her married name on the other.  I would just like someone to take a look if they can.  Have a feeling it just comes down to how it was entered.  

Thank you.
WikiTree profile: Unknown Spileman
asked in Policy and Style by Betty Tindle G2G6 Mach 6 (68.9k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith
Those profiles will need someone who is pre-1500 certified to merge them. I see Guy has changed the birthday on one to more closely match the other. I would be careful about merging them. Without that date change, they could easily be different people with the one attached mistakenly to the other's husband. Many women, then and now, have children in their late forties.
Yep, that is why I tagged it with the pre-1500 tag. I am not going to merge them for that reason.  I just forgot to mention the pre-1500 in the message.  Thanks!  :)

3 Answers

+2 votes
Best answer
The name is basically the word bushel, like for not hiding your light under, but the sh sound was often spelled ss in Latin at that period.

It's not a place, so they never used a "de".  They have no connection with any Bossalls of Bossall.

The internet hasn't tried to do the Bussels as such, it's just mangled them to make bogus aristocratic connections for the Houghton and Standish clans.

Warin Bussel wasn't the son of Roger de Busli of Tickhill, who died without heirs.

He didn't marry Montgomery's daughter.  That title "Baroness Barnard" says she's the same as Montgomery-3928, often shown as the ancestor of the Balliols of Barnard Castle.  Roger's niece really, but some internet trees like daughter better.  But that's a different can of worms.

What little we "know" comes from an inquest in 1212, when a jury was paid "expenses" to remember what it was told to remember, from before it was born.  No dates were remembered at all.

They said Warin Bussel had granted estates of 5 and 4 and 2 ploughlands to 3 lucky bridegrooms to take 3 daughters off his hands.

Then Richard Bussel had granted similar estates to 3 more men to marry 3 sisters.

None of the brides are named.

In Farrer's mimimal version, Richard is Warin's son, and Warin had 6 daughters.

If you try to guess dates, it looks like there were two wives and two separate clutches.  But you could also wonder if there were two Warins, and Richard was the son of Warin junior.  Other options are possible, eg Richard's sisters were maternal half-sisters, so not Bussels at all.

Richard had a deed witnessed by two sisters, Sibil and Maud.  If they were 2 of the 6, we don't know which.  They could be additional to the 6.

Spileman married Richard's sister and left 2 daughters, not necessarily by her.  Ralph de Standish is reasonably conjectured to be the son of one of the daughters, or at least the son of her husband, but there's nothing explicit.
answered by RJ Horace G2G6 Pilot (374k points)
edited by RJ Horace
Thank you for all of the information.  I am glad you put the meaning of the name along with the "de" and what it represents as far as names go.  I did not know either piece of information.
+4 votes
Looks like they are the same.  The second name looks more like a variant of the family name.
answered by Guy Constantineau G2G6 Pilot (337k points)
I agree, Guy!! :)
+5 votes
Perfect example of where there is more "unknown" than known.    There is a third wife with the name of we know which name is correct?   Have people changed information just to get a merge and have lost the fact that maybe there are two women that have been confused.   This is the reason we ask for sources, even if you are doing the merge.
answered by Robin Lee G2G6 Pilot (426k points)
I do understand.

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