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Question

A question I've always wanted to have an answer to and have never been able to find one:

My paternal grandfather (Douglas Alfred Victor Horstead, b. 1889, Horsham, West Sussex, England, later moved to Hackney in London as a child) Douglas had an older brother Reginald Stanislaus Horstead (b. 1887). Both boys were sent to the Bernardo School for Boys at the ages of 10-12 and soon after both were sent to Ontario as British Home Children, travelling two months apart on separate ships. (They lived and worked about 50 miles apart, but somehow found each other in Canada, and named each other as their Next of Kin on documents as adults).

My grandfather finally emerged from servitude only to cross the border in Buffalo, NY to marry a girl in Delaware, USA (not my grandmother, but, thanks to wife #1, my grandfather stayed there, met my grandmother and therefore I exist).  Brother Reginald went into military service for Canada. He apparently served in a regiment that represented Peterborough.  When I tried to research what happened to him, he appears to have been found on both a death list and a survivor's list. (Links to those sources can be found here: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/68380240/person/30179186480/facts )   

Is there anyway to figure out whether he actually lived or died? I've never been able to figure that out.

Comments

Would like to help but all I see is an ad. Do you know their parents? I found that

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Parents will probably be unhelpful. I don't believe they ever saw their parents again.  Father's name was Alfred James Horstead (b. 1863).  Mother's name was Ellen (sometimes shown as Evelyn) McNamara. (1862 - 1899)  She died prior to the boys going into the school, I believe, when my grandfather was 10 years old.)

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Here are the documents: 

Peterborough War Dead: http://www.mykawartha.com/news-story/3689584-list-of-peterborough-s-war-dead/  (this link apparently no longer works, sorry)

List of War Survivors: http://virtual.peterboroughexaminer.com/doc/Peterborough-Examiner/ptbo-war-veteran/2010040101/3.html

Answer 1

In case you don't have it I think this is Douglas' grave  https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Horstead&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=134641419&df=all&

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AReginald~%20%2Bsurname%3AHorstead~  England and Wales Birth Registration Index for Reginald  

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4DZM-36Z  Census record that shows a Reginald and brother Douglas and parents in England slightly different spelling of last name but everything else seems to fit

I also checked both WWI and WWII records for Canadian military and while I found a number of Horstead listings none were Reginald born in England or in 1887.  I checked death records and service records

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/Pages/military-heritage.aspx

https://aad.archives.gov/aad/display-partial-records.jsp?f=5058&mtch=7&q=Horstead&cat=all&dt=3001&tf=F  I also checked WWII US records  no Reginald   and WWI  via a pay site.

There is a Reginald H and a Reginald S which upon opening file is Stanislaus so your guy ,  It says he was born in Portsmouth England.Sept 30 1887.  At the time of this document he is not married.  His occupation was teamster.  The document is dated Aug 31, 1915.  He is 5' 3'  chest is 38'  144 pounds.  Eyes blue hair is light brown.  He is listed as Roman Catholic.  He is deemed fit.  No distinctive marks or illnesses.  He is attached to the Overseas Expeditionary Service. Final signature in Nov 5, 1915.  It says 37th Regiment and his enlistment number is 195102.  He served in France.  His last shots were given Aug 1918.  So he seems to have survived the war.  In later papers he is in the 93rd Battalion.  

Date for leaving France is listed as Aug 30 1918. but another page says unit sailed July 15, 1916 from Halifax on S S Empress of Britain. 

He appears to have been examined several times by medical personnel but it is really hard to read why...  the last time was April 9, 1819.  The location ends with the word dale and it looks like it starts with maybe an S?  There is another document that says he was a bartender in Canada.  It says he has a problem with his spine (I think due to an injury in the war) that makes it difficult to carry a pack without pain.  This is dated Oct 14, 1916.  The diagnosis is http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/kyphosis/basics/definition/con-20026732

In these pages his parents are both listed as dead.  

He was given the British War and Victory Medals

He was discharged on May 27, 1919 in Toronto   Reason "demobilization"  He has an address of 407 Gerard Street E in Toronto at time of discharge.  31 years 7 months at time of discharge.  Says proposed residence Petersboro after discharge.

His military will gives all his effects to Norman Horstead Royal Cambrian Institute of Deaf and Dumb Swansea England.  It does not indicate who this is.  Another person mentioned other than his brother Douglas was an Alfred on another document and no indication of relationship. 

I saw nothing in this file about his death.  

Comments

No Reginald Horstead in 1921 Canadian Census

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One document says slight Kyphosis prior to enlistment. It maybe that carrying that pack damaged it further. He was like many of his compatriots short, only 5ft 3in.

Reginald and his brother Douglas  went to school in Hackney. He was admitted to  the Sydney Road School on the 28/2/1899 and was living at 9 Mabley Street. Before that they had been at St Marys Road school Portsmouth. He  left on 29/11/1900. He was born on 30/9/1897

Brother Douglas started at the school on 28/2/1899 he left on 6th May 1901 he'd also been to the Portsmouth school  (his date of birth has been torn off it was 18th of something.)

Where though was Norman James/James Norman?  see below. He was with his father on the1901 census (but Reginald wasn't on that census  and I can't find him. His ship didn't sail until the following year)

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Wonderful work! I learned so much more than I ever thought I could know about my paternal grandfather's family.

Answer 2

There is no death recorded for him by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

Answer 3

Seven children, four died in infancy and one was disabled (as per Laura'a great answer) and their mother died young ... pretty grim.

Births

HORSTEAD, ELLA  VIVIAN ELIZABETH    MACNAMARA
GRO Reference: 1885  D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 434

HORSTEAD, REGINALD  STANISLAUS     MACNAMARA
GRO Reference: 1887  D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 438

HORSTEAD, DOUGLAS  ALFRED VICTOR    MACNAMARA
GRO Reference: 1889  J Quarter in HORSHAM  Volume 02B  Page 328

HORSTEAD, EILEEN  MARIE AGNES    MACNAMARA
GRO Reference: 1890  J Quarter in STEYNING  Volume 02B  Page 282

HORSTEAD, JAMES  NORMAN     MACNAMARA
GRO Reference: 1891  D Quarter in STEYNING  Volume 02B  Page 266

HORSTEAD, BERTRAM  LEONARD     MACNAMARA
GRO Reference: 1894  M Quarter in STEYNING  Volume 02B  Page 291

HORSTEAD, WINIFRED       MACNAMARA
GRO Reference: 1895  J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 416

Deaths

HORSTEAD, ELLA  VIVIAN ELIZABETH   9
GRO Reference: 1886  J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 288

HORSTEAD, EILEEN  AGNES MARIE   6
GRO Reference: 1890  D Quarter in STEYNING  Volume 02B  Page 190

HORSTEAD, WINIFRED      4
GRO Reference: 1895  S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 269

HORSTEAD, BERTRAM  LEONARD    2
GRO Reference: 1894  M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 340

The ages (9, 6, 4 and 2) should be interpreted as MONTHS - this is a known problem with the GRO data.

HORSTEAD, ELLEN  JOSEPHINE AGNES MARY  37
GRO Reference: 1899  M Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 414

Comments

Norman might not have been deaf, he's not recorded as such on the 1901 census. He may have been a teacher at the school.

A Norman James Horstead in the 1911 census is aged 19  was born in Portslade, Sussex ie part of the Steyning reg district He was a border in Briston Norfolk and working as an assistant teacher (employed by the County Council)

Looking forward and without double checking to see if there is another candidate.

Is this the same man with a couple of years off his age?

 Warrant Officer (II) Norman Horstead returned on a troop ship  (the Elysia, 6th July 1939)  from Bombay, his address on arrival was given as c/o Army Educational Corps, Shorncliffe. With him was his wife, Jessie whom he married in India.

Name:Norman James Horstead Male,Single 40 Birth Date:1894

Marriage Date:19 Feb 1934 Marriage Place Allahabad, Bengal, India

Father:Alfred James Horstead Spouse:Jessie Annie Violet Ricketts

FHL Film Number:528986

But at death same man, born c.1892

Name Norman J Horstead Death Age:73 Birth Date: abt 1892 Registration Date:Mar 1965 Registration district:Cleveland Inferred County:Yorkshire North Riding Volume:1bPage:722

And from Probate Calendar 

 Horstead Jessie Annie Violet of 22 Eden Street Saltburn by the Sea Yorkshire died 26 May 1965 at Pembury Hospital Kent admin to Isobel Farran Widow £3758

Horstead Norman James of 22 Eden Street Saltburn by the Sea Yorkshire died 24 February  admin to Jessie Annie Violet widow, £2595 (further grant 9 Sept 1965)

Horstead Norman James of 22 Eden Street S by the S Yorks, died 24 February 1965 admin to Isobel Farran Widow £1600

(another question is did  father Alfred remarry, I think he may have done but this is a big but interesting rabbit hole and Laura has answered the original question!)

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Norman was their younger brother. He did not go to Canada, but somehow ended up in India a few years later and married a woman named Ricketts. Alfred then remarried to a Louisa Lincoln and had a few more children.  I am glad to see that Reginald went back to England because I was afraid he never did (nevermind, it appears they used a ship of Britain to go back to Canada?)  He must have gotten in touch with Norman though, and probably met his younger step-siblings. Douglas never returned to England after his servitude. He ended up going to the United States, marrying, divorcing, meeting my grandmother and then marrying her and settling down to have one child, my father. Unfortunately, there was a younger son (by Louisa Lincoln) who also seems to have ended up in the British Home Children's program about ten years after my grandfather and his older brother. That son's name was Percy. He probably would not be listed as being part of Ellen McNamara's family (she was already deceased.)

 

Wow, you all did wonderful work.  Thank you so much!  I'm going to uprate all of these and send out acknowledgements for outstanding work!  I'm amazed with all you ALL have found. Great teamwork! Awesome!

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Interesting, Matthew,  I had once seen Ellen's name listed as "Ellen J.A.M." and didn't know what it stood for.  "Ellen Josephine Agnes Mary"  Very cool. Appreciate your hard work!

Answer 4

The British Home Children society in Canada, I believe has a website. My grandmother was a British Home Child. I believe they can provide you with detailed records on your family. I have copies supplied to me by a member. They should be easy to track down.

Comments

George. Thanks!  I'm a huge fan of Lori Oschefski's work.  I've spent quite a bit of time on her facebook group in the past.  It's heartbreaking when one realizes that these children are often given up by parents at very young ages and then sent far away (half a world away) to work in servitude for little pay and often very poor conditions. My grandfather was a farmer in Glapthorne, Ontario. I can't imagine what it was like to till the land for years, in very cold weather from the time he was about 11.  YIkes! When he left to come across the border (he had to make two attempts to finally be allowed to cross into the US) he had a total of $50 on him, for about 8 years of backbreaking work.  I get so mad when I think of how those children were treated. Thanks again. I'm so glad you are knowledgeable in BHC and sending people her way.

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The file that I received about my grandmother was about 30 pages long and very detailed. You are correct, most, but not all, were treated liked indentured slaves. Once they reached legal age they were quick to improve their own circumstance. Some were well treated and perhaps most were better off than being in the workhouses in England they came from. It was an English scheme to reduce the cost of supporting the poor.

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It was actually Lori who found my great-uncle on both the survivor's and death lists in Peterborough. I am glad to hear he survived the war.