Looking for help : cleaning up Catherine de Baillon's ancestry

Question

Marie-Catherine Baillon (1645-1688) is a Fille du Roi who had noble ancestry, and as a result she is the link between many French Canadians and royalty, including Charlemagne.

Catherine has lots of ancestors attached, but very few of them are properly sourced (for those with a source, it is usually genealogiequebec.info, François Marchi's website) and some look messy. There are also a lot of duplicates, and though many have been identified, others may be lurking out there.

So we'd like to:

1. Identify duplicates of ancestors (starting with Catherine's parents) and set up proper merges
2. Find good sources for each ancestor. A good source would at least give a clear trail to the primary documents which establish facts.
3. Check that profiles are not attached to incorrect parents or spurious descendants, spouses or siblings
4. Tidy up the profiles : post-merge cleanup, remove gedcom junk, and fill in the data fields according to Euro Aristo naming standards
5. Ideally, write a very short biography integrating known facts (born... parents... married) .

To find out more about this project, and see some recommended sources, please visit the Project page our excellent Greg Lavoie is building.

Would you like to help? Any particular profile or aspect of the project you'd like to work on? Please post here - this will keep the thread alive! You can also post comments on the Project Page.

Thank you!

Comments

I'm going to concentrate on her mother-in-law, who seems to have been made into a blood relative of hers without any sources to prove such.

Answer 1

MSGCF (Memoires de la Societe genealogique canadienne-francaise), vol. 48, no. 3, p. 190-216, De Catherine Baillon à Charlemagne, by René Jetté, John Patrick DuLong, Roland-Yves Gagné, Gail F. Moreau

Comments

there's also a book that followed that article, which I plan on chasing up at the main library here in Montréal.  :D

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It will be great to have another team member with access to a copy of the Table d'ascendance.  I purchased the book earlier this year and I'm quite impressed with the level of scholarship and overall detail.

Answer 2

I can help add sources to profiles.

Comments

Sounds good-thanks for volunteering.  I recommend starting by taking a look at the project page and reading this article, also referenced on the project page: https://acgs.org/Download/ACGS_Baillon_1999.pdf.  This should provide you with the ability to work on some of the profiles that lead back to Philippe Auguste.  You will see that I am working on other parts of her pedigree that are documented in the more complete Table d'ascendance.

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I guess I should get pre-1500 certified first.

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If you work on the more recent post-1500 profiles, then you can showcase that work when you apply for the pre-1500 certification.  That's what I'm planning to do with my profiles.

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Good idea. Thanks. I saw the requirements for pre-1500 certification and was kind of stumped.

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Thank you for your help. We haven't mentioned them, but Catherine's siblings would be good to work on, too.

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I will help out with siblings

Answer 3

My to-do list regarding her ancestors can be found on the free space page.  In addition, I reviewed Catherine's children and noted that one of them listed on WikiTree, Robert, is almost certainly fictitious.  I've marked it as uncertain existence with an explanation.

Answer 4

I've done some work on the earliest Baillon ancestors, Mathurin and his son Michel. If you'd like to have a look and comment, please do :)

I think Mathurin Baillon's father should be disconnected.

Comments

The biographies for Michel and Mathurin look good to me.  The Table d'ascendance gives the date of death for Michel as between 2 July 1515 and 31 May 1519, as Adam Baillon succeeds his father as vicomte de Caudebec on the latter date.

I agree with you that Mathurin's father should be disconnected.

Answer 5

Just a quick update on this. We've finished merging (though new duplicates are likely to surface in the future) and cleaned nearly all profiles up to the 5th generation. Some profiles have been project protected to protect the correct last names in case new duplicates need to be merged.

We're now reaching pre-1500 ancestors. Don't forget that you can still help if you're not pre-1500 certified, by posting sources for instance.

Thanks to all who helped!

Comments

Thanks for posting this update and for your help in cleaning things up.  However, a point of clarification is needed here.  There's still post-1500 work to do, just not as much on the direct ancestors.  As I mention on the free space page, there are family relationships that need to be sorted out with the Chartier and Badaillac families, and the noble lineages that lead back to Jean Lhullier are still post-1500.  I would appreciate any help with those tasks as well as the main task of documenting Catherine's direct ancestors.

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I have a major problem with the L(h)uillier branch, which I find impossible to source without access to Jetté's work.

I have the parents of Antoinette Lhuillier, but no source confirming that her father was the son of Imbert Luillier and Marie Bracque. The Bracque family (in d'Hozier) is available from Google Books, but does not mention the children of  Marie Bracque's marriage to Imbert Luillier or Imbert's parents.

Moreri mentions Jean Luillier and Jeanne de Vitry and further ancestors, but only lists 3 children and Imbert is not one of them. Imbert's brother Philippe is already on Wikitree (Luillier-7) but connected to incorrect descendants.

Answer 6

I would like to recommend that if anyone is trying to update Catherine de Baillon's ancestry that they should refer to ALL the recent publications that have provided additions and corrections to the work initially done by Jetté et al.  You can find a detailed list of all these publications at http://habitant.org/baillon/index.htm#Other%20Publications.  In particular, there have been corrections made to her Grimaldi, de Roye, Dudzeele, Straten, Hutenay, and several other families mentioned by Gagné in a 2006 article in the Mémoires.  

On my webpage I also warn about resources that should not be used because they contain errors.

Lastly, please do not rely too heavily on the work of Ouimet and Mauger regarding Catherine's reasons for immigrating to New France.  I find the family connections that Côté and Seni document to be much more convincing than unsubstantiated rumors about her having a scandalous background.

My colleagues and I continue to research Catherine de Baillon's ancestry and I am confident more articles will appear adding to and correcting her ancestry.  One must stay up-to-date with the research being done and not just rely on the initial publications we did.  

Comments

The citation from Ouimet and Mauger as to why she was found among the Filles du roy is speculative, and so stated, ''a possible reason''.

Answer 7

I have American-Canadian Genealogist

Issue #82 - Volume 25 - Number 4 - 1999

From Catherine Baillon to Charlemagne

this has 32 pages of information and sourcing if you are interested

Ellen Marchese