Desiring Ancestor data on Jean Baptiste Fournier who lived in St. Justine-de-Newton, Vaudreuil-Soulanges, Quebec.

+7 votes
520 views

Thanks to all who addressed my earlier question.  The data moved me much farther along so I am narrowing the scope of this string.  I am looking for a definitive link between the Jean Baptiste Fournier who married Martine Ducasse and the one who married Helene Beautron.  I think the wedding record supplied by E Martin below may do that but I need to have it translated.  If I could find a death record for JBF that may do it as well.  Several sites are showing a DOD of 22 Nov 1900 but there is no supporting documention.  Secondly, there appears to be a discrepancy regarding the correct father of Benjamin Fournier.  Many trees show Benjamin's mother as Madeleine Fradet but I believe it is Josette Jahan.  

 

WikiTree profile: Jean Fournier
in Genealogy Help by Tim Escott G2G Crew (400 points)
edited by Tim Escott

9 Answers

+5 votes
 
Best answer

Marriage 04 Feb 1856 Saint-Polycarpe
Jean Baptiste Fournier, veuf de défunte Martine Locas (sic)
and
Helenne Beautron, daughter of Etienne Beautron and Marguerite Gemme

"Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99S-LR1T?cc=1321742&wc=9RLZ-92H%3A22467301%2C22467302%2C22789901 : 16 July 2014), Saint-Polycarpe > Saint-Polycarpe > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1848-1856 > image 564 of 639; nos paroisses de Église Catholique, Quebec (Catholic Church parishes, Quebec).

See also: http://www.nosorigines.qc.ca/GenealogieQuebec.aspx?genealogie=Helene_Beautron&pid=309989&lng=fr

 

by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (115k points)
selected by Stanley Baraboo
This record is awesome.  The other marriage record on Ancestry for JBF and Helene Beautron is nearly impossible to read.  This record appears to mention JBFs 1st wife and would thus make for a definite connection between the two JBFs.
+8 votes

Tim ~

This may be him in 1851 during first marriage.  And their marriage record with parents listed.  I don't read French, but I think his father is listed as Benjamin Fournier.  His first wife Martine died in 1854.

1851 census:

Source Citation: Year: 1851; Census Place: St Polycarpe, Vaudreuil County, Canada East (Quebec); Schedule: A; Roll: C_1148; Page: 59; Line: 32 @ Ancestry

VIEW1851 Census of Canada East, Canada West, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia

  • View 1851 Form (Canada East/West)
  • View 1851 Form (New Brunswick)
  • View 1851 Form (Nova Scotia)
Name: Jean Baptiste Fournier
Gender: Male
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1810
Birthplace: St Roch
Born of Canadian Parents: Yes
Province: Canada East (Quebec)
District: Vaudreuil County
District Number: 34
Sub-district: St Polycarpe
Sub-District Number: 538
Household Members:
Name Age
Jean Baptiste Fournier 42

 

Marriage:

Source info: Original data: Gabriel Drouin, comp. Drouin Collection. Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Institut Généalogique Drouin.

VIEWQuebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968

    Name: Jean Tournier
    [Jean Fournier
    Spouse: Martine Ducasse
    Event: Mariage (Marriage)
    Marriage Year: 1832
    Marriage Location: St-Roch-l`Achigan, Québec (Quebec)
    by Mary Cole G2G6 Pilot (109k points)
    Thank you.  I will follow up on this.
    If you think it is him and you can read french, I can attach the original marriage record to his profile if you'd like.
    Thanks but not necessary.  I am on Ancestry and can access the files there.
    After doing an extensive amount of research on your suggestion I believe it to be correct.  With this connection I am able to run my tree all of the way back to France.  That answers a question that has plagued me for years so thank you again.  I am still trying to find that definitive bit of data that links my JTB to the one that married Martine Ducasse but I think E. Martin provided that below.  It takes a village.
    +5 votes

    Here is a reference to study that does include sources on Ancestry.com that might relate to the family tree in regard.

    Note: His wife probably did not change her surname upon marriage as was the French custom at that time in French Canada. 

    http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=metis84&id=P422

    C'est Bon ..

    by Stanley Baraboo G2G Astronaut (1.4m points)
    edited by Stanley Baraboo
    Thank you.  That does appear to be correct information on his second wife (my GG Grandmother).
    +5 votes

    Marriage 09 jan 1832 St-Roch-de-L'Achigan
    Jean Fournier, son of Benjamin Fournier and Charlotte Bricault dite Lamarche
    and 
    Martine Ducasse,  daughter of Bernard Ducasse and Desanges Juneau dit Latulippe

    "Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-899Q-9R1X?cc=1321742&wc=9RLF-DP6%3A22612801%2C22612802%2C22918801 : 16 July 2014), Saint-Roch-de-l'Achigan > Saint-Roch-de-l'Achigan > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1824-1841 > image 292 of 695; nos paroisses de Église Catholique, Quebec (Catholic Church parishes, Quebec).

    See also: http://www.nosorigines.qc.ca/GenealogieQuebec.aspx?genealogie=Jean-Baptiste_Fournier&pid=309988&lng=fr

    by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (115k points)
    edited by E Martin
    Thank you very much for all of your input here.  I believe the marriage record for JBF and Helene Beautron is the key piece of information I needed because it appears to make the link between the two JBFs.
    +4 votes
    by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (115k points)
    I think the parents for Benjamin in this tree are wrong.  His marriage record shows his mother as Josette Jahan, not Madeleine Fradet.  This does appear to be a matter of discrepancy in several trees so clarification on the correct Pierre would be wonderful.  Per the Genealogical Dictionary pf Canadian Families I think the correct Pierre is the one born 25 Jul 1748 to Nicolas Fournier and Genevieve Langlois.
    +5 votes
    by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (115k points)
    E. Martin.  You did a lot of work for me.  Thank you.
    +4 votes

    Census of Canada 1851-1852
    http://automatedgenealogy.com/census52/View.jsp?id=51790&highlight=32&desc=1852+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+J.Bte.+Fournier

    J Bte Fournier 42 & Martine Ducasse 40
    Philomena 13, Virginia 11, Auxillia 9, Marie 7
    http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e093/e002321987.jpg

    Census of Canada 1861
    Philomène 22, Virginie 20
    http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/jpg/4108828_00401.jpg

    Census of Canada 1861
    J Bte 50 & Elaine Boutron 27
    Eldéma 5, Alida 4, Augustin 2, Arturre (Arthur) 1
    http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/jpg/4108828_00399.jpg

    Census of Canada 1871
    J Bte 70 & Hélène 37
    Antoine 12, Arthur 10, Alfred 6
    http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1871/jpg/4395443_00422.jpg

    Census of Canada 1881
    Jean Baptiste 71 & Helene 48
    Antoine 22, Arthur 20, Alfred 15, Ambroise 14, Léa 4
    http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e327/e008152448.jpg

    Census of Canada 1891
    Arthur 29
    http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1891&op=img&id=30953_148226-00328

    by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (115k points)
    Thanks E.  I have seen all of these reports.  Unfortunately, none of them prove that the Jean Baptiste who married Helene Beautron is the SAME one that married Martine Ducasse.  It is clear that each of those women married someone named Jean Baptiste Fournier, but there were a LOT of Jean Baptiste Fourniers.  These could easily be two different gentlemen.  I am looking for a common link such as records for both men showing the same parents, or date of birth, or referencing both spouses in the same note.  Otherwise it is just speculation.
    There is a lot of Jean Baptiste Fournier, but he was living in Saint-Polycarpe since 1844 (children's baptism):

    1851 Census: J Bte (= Jean Baptiste) & Martine Ducasse

    1856: Marriage of Jean Bte Fournier, cultivateur de cette paroisse (= farmer of this parish), veuf de Martine Locas (= widower of Martine Locas=Ducasse) & Helene Beautron de cette paroisse (= of this parish)

    1861 Census: J Bte Fournier & Elaine Boutron & their children
    I do think the marriage record you supplied above for JBF & HB is exactly what I am looking for.  Even with my limited French it appears to reference Martine Ducasse.  I have someone translating it for me now but you appear to cite the key line above "widower of Martin Ducasse".  Thank you.
    +3 votes

    Source PRDH

    Benjamin Fournier, birth 1763-02-01, marriage 1791-07-25 with Charlotte Bricault dit Lamarche

    https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/c/ca/Fournier-971-1.jpg

    Benjamin Fournier is the son of Pierre Fournier (1726- ) and Marie Josephe Jahan dit Laviolette (1729-1811)

    Pierre Fournier (1726- M1 1746-09-28 Marie Racine) is the son of Jean Baptiste Fournier (1680-1735) and Marie Madeleine Fradet (1695-1768)

    https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/0/06/Fournier-852.jpg

    by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (115k points)

    This is irritating because I can't figure out how to insert a photo.  The button for it does not work for me.  

     

    Anyway, according to the document referenced below, the Pierre Fournier who married Marie Joseph Jahan dit Laviolette and was the father of Benjamin was born in 1929 and is the son of Nicolas Fournier and Genevieve Langlois.  My apologies for not being able to post the file here.  

     

    Quebec, Genealogical Dictionary of Canadian Families (Tanguay Collection), 1608-1890.  

    Vol 4 sec 1:  Fab - Gle.  Page 91 (fou)  page 96 if searching. 

    Page 86 shows the families of Jean Baptise & Nicolas, each with their own Pierre. 

    Yes.  Is this source reliable?

    Cyprien Tanguay's Dictionnaire généalogique des familles canadiennes (Genealogical Dictionary of French Canadian Families) is an important source for Québec research. The seven-volume dictionary gives the genealogy of most of the French Canadian colonists and many of their descendants. Records are from the late 1500s to about 1800.
     - Volume 1 - 1608-1700 - Published in 1871
     - Volumes 2 to 7 - Published from 1886 to 1890

    https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Tanguay%27s_Genealogical_Dictionary

    Although his dictionary does contain some errors and occasional speculations on possible relationships for which no evidence was known to Fr. Tanguay, his work is of a high calibre and has withstood the passage of time exceedingly well.

    Complement a Tanguay 600 pages - by Joseph-Arthur Leboeuf which reports thousands of errors and omissions of Tanguay (First published in 1957)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprien_Tanguay

    But the best is the PRDH’s data base (subscription): ALL the catholic certificates of baptism, marriage and burial of Quebec and the Protestant marriages 1621-1849
    https://www.genealogie.umontreal.ca/en/le-prdh
    https://www.genealogie.umontreal.ca/en/home

    PRDH it is.  Just my luck I found a discrepancy of records on the 3rd relative I researched here.  Anyway, thank you for all the help.  This was educational.  Oddly, neither family string resulted in any additional leaf hints for me on Ancestry DNA.  It would have been nice to have some DNA confirmation either way.
    Any chance you can get a photocopy of the actual marriage record for Pierre and Josephte?  My Fournier cousin is showing Ancestry.DNA leaf hints to ancestors of the Tanguay Pierre.  Of course the actual DNA connection could be through a different relative, but I feel this muddies the water a bit.  If the marriage record lists Pierre's parents then we know for sure.  My apologies for being a pain about this.  I just want to get it right.  

     

    Thanks for the DOB correction for Jean Baptiste.  I had seen information saying there were two, but that didn't sound right to me.  One usually only sees a repeat in name when the first child of that name dies very young.
    +3 votes

    Birth records for Jean Baptiste Fournier

    Benjamin Fournier and Charlotte Bricault had 14 children born in St-Roch-de-l'Achigan, from 1792 to 1814. 
    2 of them were baptized Jean Baptiste by the priest. (For the priest, Jean = Jean Baptiste)

    The first Jean Baptiste was born 1804-05-22 and the second Jean Baptiste was born 1808-10-16.

    Marriage records for Jean Baptiste Fournier

    (1) Mariage 1828-09-15 St-Roch-de-l'Achigan de Jean Baptiste Fournier, cultivateur de cette paroisse, 
    fils majeur (= age over 21, he was born before 1807-09-15, so he was born in 1804, not 1808) de Benjamin Fournier ... avec Josephe Debusat St-Germain 

    (2) Mariage 1832-01-09 St-Roch-de-l'Achigan de Jean Fournier, fils majeur (= age over 21, he was born before 1811, so he was born 1808-10-16, not 1804-05-22) de Benjamin Fournier ... avec Martine Ducasse

    Census of Canada 1851 
    Jean Baptiste Fournier was 42

    His first name was Jean or Jean Baptiste, he was born 1808-10-16 in St-Roch-de-l'Achigan, and he married 1832-01-09 with Martine Ducasse. Around 1844, he moved to St-Polycarpe.

    by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (115k points)
    edited by E Martin

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