Help with a birth record AND understanding the female use of "ova"

+6 votes
82 views
Can someone help me read the birth record for Anna Filip (Philipp)?  Her parents were Adalbert son of Pavel Philipp and Dorothea ???, and Sophia daughter of Adalbert ???? and Theresia ???? #9

Left side, line 2:

https://digi.ceskearchivy.cz/DA?doctree=1nrsL&menu=3&id=7619&page=15

How am I to record her last name?  Is it Filip, Philipp or Filipova?  In the earlier records I do not find women with "ova" used.

I have also seen "alias" after Filip...  Is this similar to Vulgo? It's the last record on right page:

https://digi.ceskearchivy.cz/DA?doctree=1nrsL&menu=3&id=7618&page=85

Here's another birth: Vitus, right side, sixth line, May 29th:

https://digi.ceskearchivy.cz/DA?doctree=1nrsL&menu=3&id=7618&page=103
WikiTree profile: Anna Lačinová
asked in Genealogy Help by Phillip Jares G2G6 (9.8k points)
edited by Phillip Jares

4 Answers

+3 votes
I read these as "Dorothea Netreta" and "Adalbert Pretschmann." I am unsure of Theresia's surname, it might be "Boyliny." Looking at other baptismal, or marriage, records might validate these readings (or correct them). I would welcome the opinions of other Wikitree members.

Posting a  "lesehilfe" request at www.genteam.at would be helpful.

As far as the Czech feminine endings are concerned, I also have not seen these in areas where German is the predominant language. Where Czech is the language of the records (at least in the more modern records), Czech gender and case is used.
answered by George Fulton G2G6 Pilot (159k points)
edited by George Fulton
Thank you.  I signed up for Genteam.at but do not understand how to post a question.  I've reviewed the options and it appears all I can do is search databases.
+2 votes
The "ova" suffix is used by the Czech people for some females,  but not all. My step great grandmother was Aloise Havlova, but her sister (my great grandmother) was Antoinie Havel.  Why it was used with the one and not the other I don't know.

I have other examples in my family tree.
answered by David Hughey G2G6 Pilot (335k points)
I would think the variables within the same families makes it difficult to ensure accuracy and avoiding duplications.
+2 votes

Střížov, Driesendorf in German, was a town with Czech speaking population bordering an area which was over 75% German speaking.

German population around 1930.

The use of the female name form in such places was often influenced by the customs of the surrounding population. For LNAB I would look at the rest of the records to see if perhaps a midwife is named or a godmother or female witnesses. Their names can be clues as to how to handle the LNAB. Given the Czech speaking population in the town I would definitely use the female form for the OLN field. Right now I don't have access to digi.ceskearchivy.cz to check myself but can get back to you later.

answered by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (447k points)
+1 vote
  1. Anna Philipp; Father: Adalbert Sohn des Paulus Philipp und Dorothea Peterka, Ausnehmer, untertänig nach Hohenfurth; Mother: Sophia, Tochter des Adalbert Petschmann und Theresia Kozlez(?) von Drewnowitz Nr. 9. Record is in German, no other female has a female name form, therefore, I would record her as Anna Philipp.
  2. From Driesendorf (in margin) Month of September 1 In the same church was baptized by me, Pater Edmund, Ludmilla, daughter of the father Paulus Philip aka Libansky, Häusler (a small farmer owning a house but only little land), mother Dorothea his wife, subjects of the monastery Hohenfurth. Born the same day. Alias and vulgo are similar, both Latin, the first meaning "also known as", the latter "commonly known as". Vulgo became later the standard use.
  3. From Střížov (in margin) 29 of the same month in the same church was baptized by me, Pater Nivardus Ockenfues, clergyman here, Vitus, son of the father Paulus Philipp or Lybansky, inquilinus (= living in town but not having citizen rights), mother Dorothea, subjects to the monastery of Hohenfurth, born the same day.
answered by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (447k points)
Thank you.  1) I'm really struggling with the variations of last names.  Philipp later is spelled filip or filipp.  How does one deal with it?  Another family name is Kubata which is often spelled Kubatta.  Are the variables influenced by German, Latin and Czech or the priest spelling it wrong?  2) In example one there is no AKA but then in examples 2 and 3 there is.  Are these the same people (my family)?
Is PETSCHMANN a German form and the Czech surname is different?  I've seen the German form of my name JARES as JARESCH.
I'm sorry to ask so many questions but am trying to do this correct.  The surname Philipp is a perfect example of my challenge. This link is Adalbert Filip son of Paulus Filip.  Do I record the name in LNAB Filip and use Philip, Philipp in the OLN?  I also noticed that Dorothea's dad's last name is Libansky.  I'm assuming that is why I see the AKA in the previous records as he lived at her father's home, correct?

Right side, 3rd record:

https://digi.ceskearchivy.cz/DA?doctree=1nrsL&menu=3&id=7618&page=58
Helmut

I agree with "Petschmann," as I look at the record again, there is clearly no "r". In Dorothea's surname, the first letter seems to be similar to the "N" in "Namen" in the column heading at the top of the page, however, this not a typical "N".

As for Theresia's surname, I have less confidence in my reading.

Phillip:

  • In mixed language areas the spelling of the name often changed from German to Czech and back. A German would write Philipp, a Czech would use Filip. A clue can be the given name: Adalbert is German, the Czech equivalent is Vojtěch. In general, your problem is one of the reasons I proposed to change the Czech Roots Name Field guidelines to use the name as it appears in the record instead of engaging in lengthy attempts to figure out what it "should" be. I would use Philipp as LNAB and if other records show him using Filip put that in the CLN or OLN field.
  • It was very common in Bohemia to use house or farm names. If the owner of a house or farm didn't have a male heir often the husband of the daughter ended up with her family/house/farm name. Also, sometimes a new owner or renter ended up using the house/farm name. I have examples in my own ancestry where a man ended up with his wife's name, then she died, he remarried then died and his widow remarried and her second husband ended up with the same farm name as the original couple. And on top of that sometimes the house/farm name would be used alone, sometimes the original family name, and sometimes both of them together. In all of those cases it's the same person.
  • Your name in modern Czech orthography would be Jareš. Before roughly 1850 it would have been spelled Jareſſ (two "long s's") or Jaresch. In this case the -sch does not mean it is German, just that it is from the time before 1850.

George:

My reasons for "K" are the appearance of other "K's" in the record and the variability of the K in German Kurrent. See the K in this example:

Helmut, if the oldest record is found "filip"  and then newer records are Philipp, Philip, do I go back to the older record "filip" and put Philipp and Philip in the OLN field?  I'm assuming this is how all these names link together so if someone else researches all these names they come up as possible options. Is this correct?

Yes, I have seen the Jareſſ name and changed it so will need to go back and fix it. The hard thing for me is learning all these variables as you have taught me.  It all makes sense.  But I don't know where to find all these font options.  I have the basics but not "ſ" one.
Phillip, yes to your first paragraph. As to the "ſ" I usually cheat by copying and pasting from another source, I don't remember the Alt+number combination for it all the time. It's Alt-383 but while that works in Word and other Windows based programs it doesn't work here. In NCR it is ſ
Helmet

Thank you for the chart, this is quite helpful. The handwriting of the person who wrote these records seems to be a bit different from the more standard version.

Dorothea’s surname is unusual. The initial letter looks more the the V in the chart, but comparing it with other words, for example, the N in namen, it looks more like that letter.

Kurrent certainly takes practice, and consultation with others with more experience is very helpful. Thank you.

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