New here! I have concerns about Quebecois dit names and duplicate profiles .

Question

There seems to be a lot of duplicates for many of my extended relatives, as Quemeneur *and* Laflamme. In some cases, folks have added Quemeneur as current last name and Laflamme as former, which would be incorrect if you consider it literally -- it's the Quemeneur dit Laflammes we're talking about. not the Laflamme dit Quemeneurs! I've read through G2G and there doesn't seem to be a standard/consensus to how we input these names. I have hesitated to even begin my Laflamme profiles until I am sure of how to proceed. Thoughts?

Comments

I have a few Quemeneur in my family tree which I created recently, if you end up on any of my records you can go straight ahead and do the updates!  Cheers.

Answer 1

If you read the Quebcois Naming Guidelines 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Quebecois#Guidelines_on_Names

 it recommends: 

• Last name at birth (LNAB): Doublon
• Current last name (CLN): Doublon dit des Rosiers
• Other last name (OLN): des Rosiers

But there is more information about different kinds of situations, so you may want to read the whole section on Dit Names.

Comments

Thank you! I had not come across those guidelines in my searches. I am assuming Other Last Name fields are searchable? My biggest concern, besides duplicates, is not being able to identify the Quemeneurs as Laflammes -- to my mind, they are all part of the same family (and they are) but many used the name interchangeably as to make it more complicated than need be. My 2nd great grandfather used Quemeneur/Kemner on occasion, though going forward from him, along my line anyway, the name was only used as a middle name, and not everyone used it.

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So, may I be a bit tangential and ask about that guideline? It says to not use Sr/Jr suffixes...i have a Quebecois father/son who ended up serving in the American Army during the Revolution, and then settling as refugees in New York. The Army records use the suffixes, so would it be acceptable to use them in such an instance?

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In my opinion, once the person goes over the border into the US, the rules change a bit.  Did they use Jr. and Sr. during their lifetime and it was recorded on a document?  Then I would say it belongs in the suffix field. I have yet to see Jr. or Sr. on a birth certificate, even in America.  This is more of a field used for a designation used during their life.

Answer 2

Different projects have different guidelines. The Acadian project for example, uses a list of standardized names. Basically the LNAB should be recorded, as it was written in the record, in the Bio, but the Standard name would be used in the LNAB field.

The Quebecois project doesn't have a list of standardized names, but the quidelines are pretty clear that the dit name should be added to the OLN field. Unfortunately not everyone understands dit names and a lot of profiles were added with incorrect names.

I try to find the LNAB from the baptism (which might also be incorrect because the priests were notorious for using dit names or spelling very badly). Then I try to decide by looking back a few generations what the name should be. I look at the actual records to see how the names were recorded.

You definitely should initiate merges on the duplicates you find. When I do and I find that a name is incorrect I will include the correct name (or best name I can find) in the note. If I find a profile that doesn't need a merge, but the name is incorrect, I add the baptism record and source and "suggest" they make a change in the comments field.

Comments

Thank you Dawn, this was a most helpful suggestion re: suggesting name changes on profiles when they are not duplicates! The ones that need merging that I have come across, so far, have had a merge requested but no action has been taken.

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Be patient on them. In a month you will be able to merge them...

Answer 3

hi Sara,

Seen a few Quemeneur dit Laflamme in merge proposals lately, just so you know, as time passed many families opted for one name or the other when there was a dit name, so you get the original Quemeneur dit Laflamme (also written Kemner, and all sorts of weird and wonderful variations on a theme ;) ), then the children get baptized with one or the other name.

In this family's descendants I find whole sections where the name on baptisms was only recorded as Laflamme.  That was then their last name at birth.

Over time some families get their original names inverted, so that what was the dit name originally gets flipped, and you see records saying something like ''Laflamme dit Quemeneur''.  No rhyme or reason why, they just did.  So go by original documents.  

Do a search in Wikitree before creating anybody from about 1750 and earlier, there are a lot of our ancestors already there.

Comments

Thank you for your reply, Danielle! Kemner has been used as a middle name in the last three generations of my line, so I have seen that. For us, Laflamme was adopted as the permanent surname, but there was a desire to honor the original name in some way, as I understand it.

There is a line of Quemeneur dit Laflamme who settled in NY and VT who used their own form: La Flam or LaFlam. In my own research I have preserved them that way, but would it even be appropriate to, say, add Laflamme in the OLN field in order to claim them as part of the larger family? I'm guessing not.

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You could certainly add the information to the biography though, Sara.

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Names change over time, so no, wouldn't put it in OLN field, but like Emma says, you can put it in bio section.  The family tree shows the evolution of the name.