Sprucing up the profile of Francois Hamel

Question

Hi.

I was wondering if someone could help me spruce up the profile for Francois Hamel. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hamel-163

I did a little bit by adding in the dates that were given to me by my uncle. But, it could use more meat in the bio. Does anyone know where I can go to look up information on the Hamel side? I really want to find out what role he and his descendants played in the colonization of Quebec. The Hamel bios here are pretty lacking in that regard. I managed to make decent bios for my grandfather Hamel and a couple others.

So, is there any source I can use to find out more information? If it's in French, I can google translate it. =) Are there any biographical facts about him? Thanks in advance!

Answer 1

Maybe you can search for him in google books?  You can also look for histories of where he lived for more information you can use.

Comments

Yeah, I think I will. Thanks!

Answer 2

You can find this source at some libraries:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/genealogie-de-la-famille-hamel-1656-1950/oclc/866299321

Comments

Hopefully it'll be there. It might be at my uncle's local library. He's in New Brunswick.

Answer 3

hmm, looks like someone may have confused him with someone else, his son Charles came to the colony with his 2 sons Charles and Jean, from what I can find on Fichier origine.  Charles senior is married twice, that part shows correctly.  Charles' parents are François and unknown mother from that source.  Will do some digging later and see if I can sort out what looks like an ancestry mash-up.

Comments

Done and done: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Carpentier-1181 What do you think? Feel free to edit.

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If the births of the two are unknown then why do we have accurate dates on the Quebec side of things? They tell people when they came over? "Hey. I was born X day in 16whatever"?

Or is it on their marriage records?

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Looks good to me! If you wanted to be really specific, you could place her death as "June 1646", but that's just me splitting hairs, lol. People were usually buried within two days of death in those days (sometimes even the same day) but your record looks pretty sound to me. :o)

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It's like playing detective. Have her timeline go up with Jean and Charles and see how it all makes sense.

In 1624 Charles was born. She was around 24 years old then.

Jean was born ten years later making her 34 at the time.

They had a couple other children, right? So....connect the dots. =D

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The birth years of Charles (1624) and Jean (1635) have been deduced from the census records in Quebec from 1666, 1667 and 1681, which state their ages at the time.

But please note, the ages of people, in my experience, were incorrect 3 times for every 1 time they were correct!

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Nuts. I was on a roll. =) Still, the theory is solid.

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Very much like playing detective!

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Sure. I can be Benedict Cumberbatch. =)

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Here are some images you might be interested in. The confirmation in the Church of Jean Hamel (b. 1652) can be found by clicking here. This is from 1st May 1666.

Here's an artist's rendition of brothers Jean and Charles Hamel, with their wives and Charles' son Jean -- click here.

 

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That's cool art. =) Thanks for sharing. =D

Answer 4

See https://gw.geneanet.org/ctruffier?n=hamel&oc=1&p=charles

Comments

I think I've got him on 1 January 1652 in Avremesnil (slide 17 of the 1643-1675 BMS register). Father is identified as Charles Hamel, blattier and mother as .... "Marguerite" Auvray.

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*passes Isabelle the popcorn*

This is getting good.

The Francois with the Anne is the one I have in my records. I have no clue if he married someone else. All I know is that he had four kids and at least two went to Canada and that would be Charles and Jean.

Charles was born around 1624. (My ancestor)

Jean in 1634,

Here's a Jacques Hamel: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hamel-373

His father: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hamel-11

Grandfather: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hamel-12

This doesn't get confusing at all...

 

Edit: We're still wondering if Marguerite is related to Judith. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Auvray-4

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Chris, you Hamel-373 is a descendant of the ones we're looking at. Let him not intrude in the conversation :D. He's full Quebecois anyway, and I can't help there.

Charles (your ancestor) born c. 1625 was the son of François Hamel and an unidentified mother who died sometime before 1647. In 1647 Charles marries Judith Auvray while his father marries Judith's mother, Marie Lozier. Judith must have been quite young as her mother went on to have several children with François Hamel.

We know that Judith died in 1654 (and we have the record), and that her husband, Charles, remarried in Dieppe before moving to Canada with his new wife, his son from his 1st marriage (Jean) and perhaps other young children.

Which means Charles's mother cannot be Anne. Anne was still alive when Charles's father married Marie Lozier in 1647 ! I'll have a look and confirm Anne's family name. IMO they are just another set of Hamels who happened to live in the same village. They were probably related somehow, cousins of some sort - we'll never know, there are no surviving records - but they were NOT ancestors of the emigrants to New France.

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Fine. I'll let him have his poutine in peace. (Note: I have never actually had poutine. I've heard it's really good. Gravy and cheese curds on fries seems interesting.)

As far as this goes, I'm anxious to see where this leads. My uncle did extensive research on the family and there's a chance he may be wrong here. The notes he got are from a family tree book my grandmother put together. That's how I was able to get everything up this far.

Nos Origines, a Genealogy of Canada website, helped a lot. They don't list Francois's wife. Either of them. Once this gets resolved, I'll be going to Ancestry, geni, this site and FS to fix all of the things. Not looking forward to that!

Any help is of course welcome!

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The family name of Anne, wife of the other François Hamel, contemporary of the one who interests, us, appears to be Laguitte.Or something like it.

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About the wife of the other François HAMEL, I read her name as Anne LANGUETTE in 1648.

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Huh. Everywhere on the Internet has it as Anne Hayot or Ayotte.

That lady was apparently born in 1606 in St. Aubin, D'Avremesnil, Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France

Died 1694 in Dieppe, Normandy, France.

The story goes that she went to Canada and went back to France after Francois died. I dunno if that's true/ We'd have to find that Hamel book.

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"Everywhere in the Internet" may well be incorrect. I checked the Geneanet contributions listing Marie / Anne / Marie Anne Hayot / Hayotte as wife of François Hamel around 1630, and none of them cite the parish records as sources. They cite Ancestry, or no source at all. They all seem to come from Canada and they all have the same curious assertion that François died in St Césaire; and the same information that François's father was called Abraham... which no authentic records support at this point.

I am 100% certain the name I read on records can not be Hayot, it clearly starts with L - a and I'm sure David will confirm this.

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No kidding. You can't trust everything online.

Then again it was in my grandmother's research notes. So I don't know what to think. I doubt she went online. Plus there's this history a guy on Myheritage made. I dunno if it is legit:
https://www.myheritage.com/FP/newsItem.php?s=49339982&newsID=1

Not sure WHAT to trust. Aside from sources. Legit ones.

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well, on that latest from myheritage, we already know they have wrong data on Charles the son, who was born in France and not Canada, we have his baptism.  

Nice find Isabelle on Jean son of Charles and ''Marguerite'' Auvray.  (lol, the number of times I have seen a mother's given name wrongly recorded is astronomical.)  Have attached that data to his profile (with source image tied in)

Now if we could only find his ''uncle'' Jean's marriage record with Marie Auvray, reportedly 23 July 1660 in Avremesnil.  Searching in those pages now.

Edit:  Nope, those pages go from 1658 to 1661 with nothing for 1660.  Mostly baptisms and funerals that I can see.

Answer 5

Now I am really confused. Ancestry.com just gave me a new hint for Francois Hamel. Here's what it said:

 Quebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968

Birth, Marriage & Death

Name	Francois Hamel
Spouse	Marie Rosalie Ayot
Marriage	year city, Québec

Comments

That clears up a bit of confusion. Thanks, Darren.

Just need time to edit. Unless you want to.

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Tried to get in to make the edits, but apparently I have "limited editing" capability. In other words, I'm a "noob" who has not gained the trust of Wikitree, LOL.

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Gotta sign on the dotted line for that Good faith thing when you register. That helps.

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For Charles Hamel can I say he died in 1684?

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In my opinion, he most likely died in 1684, given that this is when his inheritance was settled, but there's no concrete evidence of that.

It is known Charles was alive in November 1681, the date of that year's census, and then we don't hear of him again until 23 July 1684 when his sons settle their inheritance. In my Ancestry.com tree, I have "Bet Nov 1681 and 23 Jul 1684" listed as his date of death.

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Alright. I would need a source for that. Like a link or something.

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Sure. I don't have the link, but the source I used for the deaths of Charfles and Jean Hamel was Rene Jette's "Dictionnaire Genealogique des Familles du Quebec des Origines A 1730", pages 553-554.

In terms of French-Canadian genealogy, this is the family dictionary that's considered the gold standard. Jette was the genealogist at the University of Montreal.

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Okay. Both deaths are going to be edited. Just need more to go on for a Lozier profile. =D Grazie. Wait...

Merci.

Sorry. Been talking to Italy. Multitasking and multilingual today, =D

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Prego! err I mean de rein!

To see the record proving the mother-daughter relation between Judith Auvray and Marie Lozier, click here.

 

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Okay. I will put that on Judith Auvray's profile for now.