PGM: Separating two conflated Nathaniel Thayers [closed]

+9 votes
172 views

This profile has quite a history, so thought it deserved its own thread.  There seem to be two Nathaniel Thayer one of Taunton (married to Abigail Harvey) and the other Nathaniel Thayer of Boston married to Deborah Townsend. 

According to the the comments on the side and one of the sources listed in the profile (The Thayer Family of Thornbury: A study trying its reconstitution) the baptism and birthdates in the wikitree bio are actually two separate birthdates/baptisms with different parents and godparents.

See: https://archive.org/stream/thayerfamilytho00unkngoog#page/n30/mode/2up

If this is correct, Nathaniel Thayer of Taunton, married to Abigail Harvey should be the son of William Thayer, not Richard.  Richard's son was in Boston married to Deborah Townsend.

(I've also attached several Nathaniel Thayers as unmerged matches that could be cleaned up, and one used for the 2nd Nathaniel once we're ready to separate the families).

Thoughts?  Can anyone access the original baptisms to make sure that's correct.  I know that there are lots of errors in Thayer genealogies, and the Thornbury parish record transcriptions.

WikiTree profile: Nathaniel Thayer
closed with the note: Profiles have been separated
asked in Genealogy Help by M Cole G2G6 Mach 1 (19.7k points)
closed by M Cole
I've started using one of the duplicate profiles to collect facts on Nathaniel, husband of Deborah Townsend.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Thayer-2961

The 1693 death date on the profile now is for Nathaniel of Boston, not Taunton.  I found an abstract of his will/probate from Suffolk, and it names wife Deborah.
Nathaniel Thayer isn't in Great Migration, but wife Deborah Townsend and parents are.  Says she married Nathaniel Thayer, son of Richard of Braintree.  I think by PGM standards is enough to disconnect Nathaniel of Taunton, and connect Nathaniel of Boston to Richard.

4 Answers

+7 votes

While I have not yet gone through the articles to find your specific question regarding your Nathaniel Thayers, it needs to be pointed out that the NEHGR article with the parish transcripts and the publication you gave by Ojeda made a number of serious errors and cannot be trusted.  They have been replaced by recent articles in the American Genealogist, and I would suggest not making any changes to the Thayer ancestry without having them in front of you.

  • Holman, Mary Lovering. Ancestry of Charles Stinson Pillsbury and John Sargent Pillsbury, vol. 1. (1938):443-449. HathiTrust.org LINK
  • Ojeda, Tomas Thayer , The Thayer Family of Thornbury: A Study Trying its Reconstitution. (Santiago, Chili, 1907):16-17. Archive.org LINK
  • Muno, Patricia Thayer, The Thayer - Tayer - Theyer Families of Gloucestershire, England, 1500-1600 (1995).
  • Smith, Dean Crawford and Melinde Lutz Sanborn. The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton, 1878-1908: Part 3, The Ancestry of Henry Clay Bartlett, 1832-1892. (Boston, MA: NEHGS, 2004):370.
  • New England Historical and Genealogical Register [NEHGR] vol. 60 no. 4 (October 1906):281-88. Tayer (Thayer) Family Entries in the Parish Register of Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England, by Walter Faxon, Edward Henry Whorf, and Henry Ernest Woods. Caution: contains errors, compare to TAG (1998):81-90. Books.Google.com LINK
  • NEHGR vol. 60 no. 4 (October 1906): 289-91. Abstracts of Wills Relating to the Tayer (Thayer) Family of Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England, by Walter Faxon, Edward Henry Whorf, and Henry Ernest Woods. Books.Google.com LINK
answered by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (166k points)

Thanks.  Yes, I am always cautious when working with Thayers.  Of the items you listed, it sounds like the Faxon & Ojeda articles (and possibly the Holman book)  are not reliable.

Unfortunately, the Muno books are not widely available, but the outline of the first several generations in America the for two of the Thayers, Thomas and Richard is on the Family Thayer Association website.  This doesn't show descent for William, but it does show that the marriage for Nathaniel son of Richard was to Deborah Townsend and not Abigail Harvey.

The TAG articles and The Ancestry of Eva Belle Kempton I can get at the California Gen Soc.

+2 votes

I agree that the Nathaniel who married Abigail Harvey in 1665 is not the same Nathaniel who married Deborah Townsend in 1669. Nathaniel and Abigail lived in Taunton, where Abigail died in 1691. Nathaniel and Deborah lived in Boston, where (for example) their son Nathaniel was born on July 11, 1681.

Note that Torrey's New England Marriages has 4 marriages for men named Nathaniel Thayer in the latter part of the 1600s. I think these are four different men (and I note that Torrey didn't venture to suggest life dates for three of the four):

  1. THAYER, Nathaniel & Abigail [HARVEY] (1640-1691), dau William.; 1660?, by 1665; Taunton {Reg. 17:35; MD 18:56; Harvey 1:37; Babbitt 26; Gen. Adv. 4:60-1; Snow-Estes 2:296, 301}
  2. THAYER, Nathaniel & Deborah [TOWNSEND] (1650-); by 1671; Boston {Reg. 29:47, 102:178; Sibley's Harv. Grad. 5:455; Thayer (1835) 134; Vinton Mem. 355, 356; Parker (,9) 535; Townsend (,6) 4; Goodhue Anc. 227; EIHC 19:272; Pillsbury Anc. 447}
  3. THAYER, Nathaniel (1658-1726) & Hannah HOIDEN/HAYDEN/ HEIDEN (1661-); 27 May 1679; Braintree {Utah Gen. Mag. 20:101; Reg. 37:348, 71:264; Braintree 719; Thayer (1835) 126; Thayer (1874) 64; Fulton Anc. 228; Palmer 97; Davis-Everett 47; Hayden Fam. Mag. 19
  4. THAYER, Nathaniel & Rebecca BRIGGS; 11 Feb 1690; Taunton {Reg. 17:234, 62:183; Briggs (1880) 54-55; Snow-Estes 2:289, 297; TAG 33:79}

The article Are There Two Kinds of Thayers? in NEHGS Nexus in 1985 has a great title in relation to this discussion, but the article itself is not particularly relevant. My Thayers (including Nathaniel who married Hannah Hayden) are all of the Braintree kind, so I've not worried much about the other kinds.

answered by Ellen Smith G2G6 Pilot (892k points)
edited by Ellen Smith
Thanks, Ellen. (Especially for adding the Torrey sources.)  I'm not directly related to the Thayer's but in working on connecting Wheelock's I come across them frequently, and there always seems to be issues.  I'm tempted to start a Thayer project, as it seems many of the issues get corrected, and then a couple years later get changed back.  But I will resist going down that rabbit hole...for now.
When the corrections are made, let us know and we will project-protect the relevant profiles in order to reduce it not eliminate future reversions.

Thanks for your work on this, M Cole.  The PGM project is very grateful.
+4 votes

Hello:

There is a Thayer Families Association and their respected historian, Patricia Thayer Muno. Patricia has compiled many books, the first one included an incorrect conclusion that there were only two Thayer brothers who originally immigrated from Thornbury, England to the US, and that the Nathaniel Thayer who married Abigail Harvey, was the son of Richard Thayer.

Patricia has since discovered the following information that shows that the Nathaniel Thayer who married Abigail Stone, was actually the son of a third, heretofore unknown brother, William and his wife, Mary Kelloway.  Please see her substantiation below:

"For our cousins who still think they descend from the Immigrant, NATHANIEL THAYER: Congratulations! You now have Nathaniel's father, William Thayer, baptized 5 May 1605 in the St. Mary the Virgin Church in Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England also as your immigrant ancestor!

Here is the source for this 2003 finding:

A History of the Doggett/Daggett Family 1894, 
compiled by Samuel Bradlee Doggett, copyright 1894, page 75.

From this source, we read the following:

"John Doggett settled 1st in Watertown in 1630. He removed to Rehoboth in about 1646. The 9th of the 12th mo., 1646, at a meeting of the townsmen, .....

The same day, it was agreed that Edward Sale, John Doggett, William Sabin, John Peram, and WILLIAM THAYER shall have leave to set up a "weier" upon the cove before William Devill's house, and one upon Pawtucket river."

This William Thayer could have been none other than the father of Nathaniel Thayer who settled in Taunton, Bristol, MA. It is highly likely that he may also have been the father of Benjamin TAYER family of RI.

With William's last child born in England in 1644 and the above information, it is estimated that William, and at least his son Nathaniel, immigrated to America in about 1645.

The following children of William THAYER and Mary KELLAWAY, most of whom were known to have died in infancy or early childhood:

i. Jonathan (1626-1626)
ii. Marie (1627-1627)
iii. Jonathan (1628/28 - 1628/29)
iv. John (1631-1631)
v. Marie (1632- death unknown)
vi. Elizabeth (1635- death unknown)
vii. Jonathan 1637-1642/43)
viii. Nathaniel (10 May 1640 Thornbury - about 1725 of Taunton, Bristol, MA - Immigrated to America, most likely with his father before 1645).
ix. Gabriel (22 Apr 1644 Thornbury - death unknown)."

answered by Anonymous Anonymous G2G Crew (420 points)
Interesting, was this in a Thayer Families Association Newsletter?

Its interesting, that she came to the same conclusion as the earlier article I posted.  Although the reference to Abigail Stone, instead of Harvey is a little confusing.
Stone must have been a typo.
+1 vote

My late father had a large database of Thayers. 

Here are his listings and sources:

Nathaniel Thayer, son of Richard and Dorothy Mortimore, bp 11 Apr 1639 Thornbury (Waldo Chamberlain Sprague, Genealogies of the Families of Braintree, MA, card 4619R.; and Patricia Thayer Muno, A Comprehensive Genealogy of the Thayer Family in America (Vol. IV, Descendants of Richard Thayer, 2005), p. 547.); d. Boston 7 Aug 1693 (Waldo Chamberlain Sprague, Genealogies of the Families of Braintree, MA, card 4619R.); m. Deborah Townsend (Waldo Chamberlain Sprague, Genealogies of the Families of Braintree, MA, Card 4619.)

Nathaniel Thayer son of William Thayer and Mary Kellaway, bp. Thornbury 10 May 1649 (Patricia Thayer Muno, A Comprehensive Genealogy of the Thayer Family of America (Vol II Descendants of Nathaniel Thayer Immigrant to America 1660), p. 1.); d. Taunton ca 1725 (ibid); m. ca 1660 Abigail Harvey (Patricia Thayer Muno, A Comprehensive Genealogy of the Thayer Family of America (Vol I The Thayer - Tayer - Theyer Families of Gloucestershire, Eng.), p. 65.).

Nathaniel Thayer son of Richard Thayer and Dorothy Pray, b. Braintree 1 Jan 1657/8 (Bates, Samuel A., ed, Records of the Town of Braintree 1640 to 1793 (1886), p. 632.); d. Braintree 28 Mar 1728 (Bates, Samuel A., ed., Records of the Town of Braintree, 1640 to 1793 (1886), p. 728.), bur. Elm Street Cemetery (Patricia Thayer Muno, A Comprehensive Genealogy of the Thayer Family in America (Vol. IV, Descendants of Richard Thayer, 2005), p. 3.); m. Braintree 27 May 1679 Hannah Hayden (Bates, Samuel A., ed, Records of the Town of Braintree 1640 to 1793 (1886), p. 719.)

Nathaniel Thayer son of Nathaniel Thayer and Abigail Harvey, b. Taunton ca 1668 (Patricia Thayer Muno, A Comprehensive Genealogy of the Thayer Family of America (Vol II Descendants of Nathaniel Thayer Immigrant to America 1660), p. 1.); d. Taunton ca Feb 1752 (ibid); m. Taunton 11 Feb 1690 Rebecca Briggs (Vital Records of Taunton, MA to the Year 1850 (1928), 2:471.; and Patricia Thayer Muno, A Comprehensive Genealogy of the Thayer Family of America (Vol II Descendants of Nathaniel Thayer Immigrant to America 1660), p. 1.)

 

 

answered by Lin Wright G2G6 Mach 1 (12.7k points)

Related questions

+1 vote
1 answer
+3 votes
3 answers
+2 votes
2 answers
+2 votes
1 answer
131 views asked Feb 10 in Genealogy Help by M Cole G2G6 Mach 1 (19.7k points)
+2 votes
2 answers
84 views asked May 13, 2017 in The Tree House by Lin Wright G2G6 Mach 1 (12.7k points)
+2 votes
1 answer
82 views asked Jun 5, 2018 in Genealogy Help by Troy Smith G2G6 Mach 5 (52.8k points)
+1 vote
1 answer
61 views asked May 12, 2018 in Genealogy Help by Caryl Ruckert G2G6 Mach 8 (83.3k points)

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...