Communicating with ancestors

+5 votes
1.8k views

Over a year ago, I was told that it is possible to communicate with deceased ancestors, but I was cautioned to always have a respectful attitude when talking to them.  I decided to try it and see what happened, and it worked…

On the “Day of the Dead” (the day after Halloween), I thought of the names of all of my grandparents and their parents and grandparents, and they started talking to me.  Remorse came up immediately for some of them.  I learned that women often had ongoing connections with living daughters and granddaughters, but most of the men had been isolated since their deaths.  I was told – several times – that after death there is a kind of separation of what we call the soul into two parts.  Each ancestor has a part that remains accessible to descendants, and a part that goes elsewhere.  Memories are incomplete.

Ancestors want to see the well-being of their descendants.  Ancestors also want to be able to talk to their own parents and children.  Ancestors hope that living descendants will work their way back from their parents or grandparents to more distant ancestors, one generation at a time.  This allows children and parents among the ancestors to talk to each other, when a living descendant is open to ancestral communication.

Ancestors want to avoid hearing from descendants who just want to ask questions about the family tree.  Ancestors may not communicate with descendants with only this in mind.  For this reason, it is once again a good idea to work your back from one generation to the next.  Ancestors believe that descendants who are respectful will be pleased to talk about their own lives.  Ancestors want their descendants to live will, and ancestors are concerned when descendants are struggling.  Ancestors have the ability to observe the lives of living descendants, but they often do not do so.  Ancestors may be inclined to be more observant after a descendant contacts an ancestor, especially if that ancestor had not had any communication with descendants before.

Some ancestors, especially those who were devoutly religious, may avoid communicating with descendants who don’t share their moral values.

Husbands and wives who didn’t get along with each other may be able to begin to communicate about issues that they never talked about before death.

One final point – I have heard some disturbing stories from ancestors, and proper respect demands that the ancestor be asked for permission before sharing such stories.  The following free space page contains the stories of four ancestors, starting with a Swiss soldier in Germany who never made it home.  The words are entirely those of the ancestors: I typed as their words appeared in my mind.  

The ancestors gave their permission to publicly share all that appears here: Ancestral Memories: The Schmückle Family in Einod

in The Tree House by Living Schmeeckle G2G6 Pilot (103k points)
retagged by Living Schmeeckle

5 Answers

+10 votes
 
Best answer

I think you need to be clearer about how the information came to you.  You say, "they started talking to me".  Who is "they"?  Did all all of your grandparents and their parents and grandparents speak to you?  What language did they use and how do you understand the dialect from the seventeenth century?

On the free space page you should clarify a bit more as well.  For example, you should directly say.  Martin Schmucklin, who died in the seventeenth century, spoke to me on the night of  December 2017 and told me the following.  As the free space stand now, it seems like maybe these are family stories passed on through the years.  Not ones obtained a few weeks ago, by you from a dead person.  Therefore, as it stands now, it could be misleading.

I think if you are clear about the information you obtained, others can then better judge the validity of the information you are delivering to the world.

Thanks,

John

by John Bentley G2G6 Mach 2 (24.4k points)
selected by SJ Baty

Thank you John and Jillaine for your feedback.  I'll answer both of your posts here.

On Nov. 1, 2016, I made a point of respectfully focusing on the names of each grandparent, great-grandparent and great-great-grandparent.  Then I started listening, focusing on each great-great-grandparent, starting at the top of my 5-generation chart and working haphazardly down the list.  When I got to my mother's side of the family, I talked to my Stickler great-grandparents, and then had to end because I was getting overwhelmed; I followed up the following day.

Here are my notes (abridged to remove bits that ancestors would prefer not to share):

"Gottlieb [Schmeeckle] regretted that he had been unable to provide a comfortable widowhood for Barbara, but he had failed to prosper after coming to Nebraska in his elder years.  Jacob Zimmerman said that he had been unable to prevent his daughter from marrying outside the Amish church, and then had been unable to shun her after she did so, and so the congregation ended up shunning their minister.   Prince Tobey talked about being unable to work on the trip through California (because he was so old), but he had skillfully directed the others, who benefited from his direction.  And then back in Nebraska, he was well-received by his children as he lived out his years, once again because of his practical wisdom.  I had mistakenly called “Sarah Hunt,” and Prince’s wife Esther talked after him, saying that because of her hips, she was unable to work properly, and mentioned losing six of her children.  Her mother Sarah later spoke up, wondering why I had called her.  I first said that she was the only ancestor who had been born in Vermont where I grew up, and then explained the mistake, that I had meant to name her daughter Esther.  Sarah said that Esther, although unable to work well, had been good at building a loving home environment for her family.  She said that there had never quite been enough in the town she lived in, but the community supported each other and together managed to make ends meet.  James Gilliland Stickler [I heard him pronounce “Jilliland,” not “Guilliland,” as I had always imagined the pronunciation] said that he had been unable to give good educations to all his children, so he focused his resources on his son Ralph, with the idea that Ralph would pay for the educations of his brothers’ children; and so he did.  James said that Ralph’s wife had never been satisfied, and made it impossible for James to enjoy a relationship with his son as an adult.  James’s wife Mercy Ann Singley said that she had been a simple woman, and was surprised that anyone had remembered her.  And that was when it first occurred to me that I could have extended conversations with these people."

I "heard" all of these conversations in plain English as I am used to speaking.  It occurred to me that my great-great-grandfather Gottlieb Schmeeckle spoke little if any English when alive.  When I recently talked to distant German ancestors, I also "heard" their thoughts in plain English.  However, at times there was confusion about the proper choice of a word, and I indicated that in my first "Ancestral Memories" free space page by putting the word in question in parentheses.  In each of these cases, the ancestor and I agreed on the particular word to use, and then the ancestor moved on with his/her story.  I don't have any explanation for how I hear their words; it's part of the mystery of what is going on.

Jillaine, you wrote, "However anyone may think about whether or not it’s possible to communicate with long-deceased ancestors, providing information on a profile that you obtained through such a communication fails to meet the second purpose of a citation. I cannot independently access or verify that data."

I agree in general, and I have not added any of this information to any profile, and I am not inclined to do so, beyond "see also..." notes that I have placed in the Sources section of several profiles, with links to the relevant free space page.

Regarding independent access to my data, this depends on (1) whether you are also a descendant of the ancestor in question, and (2) whether you have developed the ability to communicate with ancestors (which appears to be much more common than many people realize), and (3) whether the ancestor in question wants to talk to you.  Once again, we should always be respectful when communicating with ancestors, and not treat them like source documents whose sole purpose is to satisfy our curiosity.

For example Jillaine, Nathaniel Fish--father of our common ancestor Ambrose Fish--told me that the father of his first wife (also our ancestor) was Mr. Henry Feake of Sandwich.  I present this to you as a hypothesis worth testing, although the lack of records in that time and place will probably continue to be an insurmountable brick wall.

 

I would not accept any of your stories as "sources" but it doesn't appear you are using them as such.  I can see the possibility your stories serve as a useful thought exercise to help you more deeply explore the genealogical relationships combined with the history of the era in which you and others are researching.  Therefore, it doesn't seem unreasonable to use a free space page here for that purpose.      

There are very many seventeenth century profiles on Wiki Tree who only list someone's "personal knowledge" as a source.  So I guess its possible the information your dead relatives give you is no less reliable than other people's "knowledge" of events that happen hundreds of year before they were born.  At least you are explaining were your knowledge comes from, which is more than many profile managers have done

Thanks for sharing, its an interesting topic.

John
What a tactful reply. Funny but I get irritated at having to source those gedcom uploads that were never adequately sourced with anything resembling objective authoritative records. Running across an autobiographical psychic experience record not-so-much.  :)

As for J S and his elegant appeal for a wider frame-work with which to encase his personal ancestral experiences; Look at the psychic John Edward's. He's absolutely professional regarding his psychic approach and he's well documented; a well-known part of a large sector in the social and religious frame-work of our society. So too was Edgar Cayce. And if the talent existed on a very large scale it probably also existed on a smaller scale in the everyman.  Look at Elsa Barker at the turn of the last c. What about the psychic's Jane Robert's phenomenon in the 1970's?

Is the recording of these human experiences within a relevant framework on a profile level help further Wikitree's mission and goals? Or would it cause more problems than is worth it?

Just thinking out loud.   :)
+6 votes
That is very interesting. Stuff like that is intriguing in a certain way. You are brave to dip into that kind of spiritual realm. For me, as a born again Christian since the age of 5, I was taught from the Bible that there is a very real Heaven and Hell. I want nothing to do with Hell. I live my life knowing this world is temporary and I want to earn a Crown of Righteousness and a Crown of Life in Heaven. I am Driven by Eternity. There is a book by that name too. I own it. Wonderful book. I have never been one to want to talk to ghosts or spirits, but do know there is a demonic underworld which is quite real. I stay away from that kind of thing in every sense of the word.  I do talk silently and sometimes audibly to Jesus when I pray. Some might say that is not much different. As a Christian with a real personal relationship with Jesus, I keep my heart, soul, and mind on the Heavenly spiritual realm---all the time. I love genealogy and hope to see many of my ancestors in Heaven one day and ask them all kinds of questions! I have that hope!

With that said, I want to share a real story of hope and I pray that it encourages someone out there...I DO believe Christians can get messages to their loved ones. Let me explain:  On November 5, 2016, my mom was in the hospital for possible strokes and blood clots. She and I had a "wonderful" time in the waiting room for 5 hours talking, sharing recipes, and reading magazine articles. Even in our frustration that they were so busy and she couldn't get a bed yet, we both kind of wondered if this was near the end of her road. We were planning an all out once in a lifetime Disney World vacation the following week, so she and I both wanted her to live so we could make those memories we had been planning for a year. We had often talked about my daughter's murdered bff who went to Heaven one year before and what it would be like and what Amanda was doing with the angels and what my daddy was doing up there too. We joked and said dad was probably taking the wheels off of all the chariots since he liked working on cars so much in life. I then asked mom that when it was her time to go to Heaven, to please find Amanda and tell her that her story got national attention and that many souls have come to Christ through her godly life and testimony AND tell her that her husband Davey and baby son Weston are doing fine. Mama's eyes teared up and she said, "I would be happy to!"  Thanks mama. You see, I had heard a similar situation years before when our former Youth Pastor asked a church member lady who was dying of cancer if she would please find their baby Annie in Heaven and tell her all about their family. Their sweet Annie was born at 26 weeks gestation a few months before and never took a breath. They KNOW they will see her one day in Heaven just like Amanda's family KNOWS they will see her in Heaven one day too! I KNOW I will see all of them in Heaven one day! I get so excited about that! Mrs. Jackson clearly understood the Youth Pastor's request and she said she would be happy to find Annie. That story has always stayed fresh in my mind. In all honesty, I truly believe that Mrs. Jackson and my mom actually did find Annie and Amanda and told them the messages that asked of them. Earth to Heaven. No cell phone calls, no letters, but one Christian speaking to another in Jesus' name, I believe can break through barriers of the earthly realm like no other. Well, those stories always make me smile. I hope it makes someone smile that needs a bit of hope out there. Happy New 2018!
by Debbie Parsons G2G6 Pilot (150k points)
+22 votes
This site is supposed to be based on facts.   Sheesh
by

Perhaps it is better to say that this site is based on SOURCES, which sometimes means the judicious interpretation of ambiguous or conflicting evidence.  For example, based on (among other things) an analysis of the names that Henry and Jane (Pearce) Rogers gave their nine children, I demonstrated that Jane was actually baptized under the name "Honor."  See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Pearce-1410

The point here is that the discussion of evidence cannot be reduced to mere "facts": interpretation plays an essential role, especially in complicated genealogical conundrums.  Another example that I have worked on is the parentage of John Harcourt.  Both examples required thinking "outside the box" of pre-conceived notions and false assumptions.

A final thought, I hope that whoever posted that anonymous comment will remember Point 4 of the Wikitree Honor Code and strive to be courteous to everyone.

John, I concur that evidence analysis requires us to take into consideration a number of things. But when we cite our evidence we do so to help the reader a) assess the quality of our facts and thinking and b) independently find the source itself.  

However anyone may think about whether or not it’s possible to communicate with long-deceased ancestors, providing information on a profile that you obtained through such a communication fails to meet the second purpose of a citation. I cannot independently access or verify that data.
moved to an answer
Very good point,John; should be an answer; I'd upvote it.
I'm making an UP-VOTE not for anonymous because I love the comments by J S, Jillaine and John. Particularly J S. What lovely prose you have and quite succinctly stated clearly arising from the biographical evidence. Your case was well laid out. I was exhausted by the time I finished reading only because I'm now an old lady and huff and puff to keep up.  :)
+4 votes

I have added the stories of Thomas and Jean (Peckham) Delano, the common ancestors that I share with President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, at this free space page: Ancestral Memories: Jean Peckham and Thomas Delano.

The stories of their daughter Jane and her husband Prince Tobey (who really was the Captain of the Mayflower) are here: Ancestral Memories: Prince Tobey and Jane Delano.   (And on that page you can click on the link to the stories of their son Benjamin and his wife Deliverance Martin.)

by Living Schmeeckle G2G6 Pilot (103k points)

I have added the memories that two more generations of my Tobey ancestors were willing to share; see  Ancestral Memories: Prince and Esther Tobey.

+5 votes
Wow, what an interesting way to present your family's story!  I am surprised at the extreme reactions of some as you are NOT using these stories you share as sources, but as a narrative on a free space page.  Maybe I am missing something here as this seemed like an entertaining post!
by Cindy Lesure G2G6 Pilot (126k points)
I think what you're missing is that while stories are a wonderful addition to any genealogical exploit, they need to be of the non-fiction variety, as opposed to creative writing.
Well said Frank. You're absolutely right. It's a question of format and definition and psychic experience can very well be perceived as creative writing.
Leigh Anne, it's more a matter of definition, rather than "perception". A story that simply appears in your mind, without being exclusively based on actual recorded facts, is - by definition - creative writing.
I respectfully disagree.  There has been absolutely no creative effort involved in typing these stories.  The words of others appear in my mind.  I type, as if taking dictation.  I do not know where the story is going beforehand.

Best wishes,

John Schmeeckle

p.s.  I have been recording additional ancestors' stories and adding them to my family tree at ancestry.com.  The 400th anniversary of the voyage of the Mayflower is next year.   I have just begun recording the stories of my fistful of Mayflower ancestors, which I will be sharing there in due course.
Strange none of them ask you, "Who on earth are you?" "Annonymous Schmeeckle?" "Never heard of you" ...

Strange that for everyone who speaks to you, you already know their name and how they are related to you e.g. even for 5 generations back.

Whatever floats your boat, I suppose. However, Wikitree really doesn't seem to be the right place for such fiction, which is very personal take on something semi-hidden and inaccessible. Even a FSP is meant to be shared by all and yet what you describe cannot be shared by the wider Wikitree community - lack of access to most of us - thus it is exclusive and in a way discriminatory and so should not be encouraged.

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