How would you add people to here when you don't kow any dates for them?

Question

http://archives.gnb.ca/Search/VISSE/141B7.aspx?culture=en-CA&guid=02a391b9-6898-4ee7-9cb1-e4140aa20082  (Marriage record from the Provincial Archives of New Brunswick, Canada, for marriage of William H. Aitken (b. at Argyleshire, Scotland, son of James Aitken and Jessie Hamilton)and Nellie J. B. G. Adam (b near Aberdeen, Scotland, daughter of James B. Adam and Agnes Breckin). Gives some good information on a family, but I can't add them because I don't have dated of birth or death. I'm not sure how to add them, but it could be a good breakthrough for a family. I do see them listed elsewhere, on a site that I'm not a member of. They don't have parents listed, or locations like on this link. http://www.ancestry.co.uk/genealogy/records/nellie-j-adam_35491018 Anybody know how to add this family without dates? (I'm pretty sure that the groom wasn't really 128 years old at the time of his marriage. lol. That would probably be the oldest man to get married in history.)

Answer 1

As a general answer to your question, it almost always possible to come up with reasonable estimated dates.  Put in your estimated dates, and then explain them in the biography.  You gave us a marriage record of 12 September 1890, it would be reasonable to say they were likely born before 1870. (it's good enough to start a profile)

In this case, you have access to ancestry.com, it took minimal searching to find:

Ancestry.com personal site has:

William Hamilton Aitken

BIRTH 22 JAN 1860 • Biggar,Lanark,Scotland

DEATH 30 MARCH 1929 • Los Angeles, California, United States

Nellie J Aitken

BIRTH FEB 1861 • Scotland

DEATH 12 APR 1922 • Los Angeles, California, USA

 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/53884467  (wrong birth date?)

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/107370319/william-aitken

 

United States Census, 1920," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MX2P-XR6  : accessed 12 January 2018), William H Aitken, Colorado Springs, El Paso, Colorado, United States; citing ED 68, sheet 4B, line 73, family 92

 

"United States Census, 1910," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MK43-N73  : accessed 12 January 2018), William H Aitken, Colorado Springs Ward 3, El Paso, Colorado, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 38, sheet 5A, family 112

 

United States Census, 1900," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQM2-TCD  : accessed 12 January 2018), William H Aitken, Precincts 24, 27-29 Goldfield town, Teller, Colorado, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 132, sheet 24B, family 674

 

Source Citation for Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

VIEW RECORD

Name    William Hamilton Aitken

Gender Male

Birth Date           01 Apr 1861

Birth Place          Biggar,Lanark,Scotland

Father   James Aitken

Mother Jessie Hamilton

FHL Film Number             6035516

Household Members    

Name    Age

James Aitken    

Jessie Hamilton

William Hamilton Aitken              

 

Source Citation for California, Death Index, 1905-1939

Name    William H Aitken

Birth Year            abt 1864

Death Date         30 Mar 1929

Age at Death      65

Death Place        Los Angeles, California, USA

 

Source Citation for California, Death Index, 1905-1939

California, Death Index, 1905-1939

Name    Nellie Aitken

Birth Year            abt 1870

Death Date         12 Apr 1922

Age at Death      52

Death Place        Los Angeles, California, USA

 

Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Name    William Hamilton Aitken

Gender Male

Birth Date           22 Jan 1860

Birth Place          Biggar,Lanark,Scotland

Father   James Aitken

Mother Jessie Hamilton

FHL Film Number             6035516

Household Members    

Name    Age

William Hamilton Aitken              

Jessie Hamilton

James Aitken

 

Source Citation for Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

VIEW RECORD

Name    William Hamilton Aitken

Gender Male

Birth Date           01 Apr 1861

Birth Place          Biggar,Lanark,Scotland

Father   James Aitken

Mother Jessie Hamilton

FHL Film Number             6035516

Household Members    

Name    Age

James Aitken    

Jessie Hamilton

William Hamilton Aitken

Comments

WOW! :O I'm stunned! I am not on ancestry or any other paid site. I only come to this one in hopes of building a free global tree. This is all very useful information. Thank you so much for doing those searches for me and sharing the result. I'm sure it took a lot of time to do that! It's definitely appreciated!

Answer 2

12 Sept 1890 was the marriage date for the couple above. In the link here, you'll see a marriage dated 12 Sept 1890. It's also held by the provincial Archives of New Brunswick. http://archives.gnb.ca/Search/NewspaperVitalStats/Details.aspx?culture=en-CA&guid=CE7E65D3-40E4-4895-B2D8-3B1B5AAA08BC It confirms the marriage with this newspaper wedding announcement. Tells me that Nellie was the daughter of J.(James) B. Adam, of Kincardine (Victoria Co, NB, Canada) and that Nellie's Husband was W.H. AITKEN, of Colorado.

I don't know if this J.B. Adam is related to "J.B. ADAM, late of Ferryhill (Stonehaven, Scotland)" in the following article.  http://archives.gnb.ca/Search/NewspaperVitalStats/Details.aspx?culture=en-CA&guid=5E91A09A-783E-404F-B81A-567E032E2FA3

Answer 3

As mentioned above, the ideal situation is to research further until you can feel confident about some dates. However, that is not always possible. I am always hesitant to add profiles without at least reasonable dates attached to it, as there's the tendency to walk away from them and not return for a long time. With that being the case, you can add them as "estimated" dates - I would highly recommend adding certain categories to them to identify them as being set up with estimated dates, though. It will make it easier to find them later. The categories are:

[[Category:Estimated Birth Date]]

[[Category:Estimated Death Date]]

and more like this.

In general, if I find a marriage date of 1890, my estimated birth date would be 18-20 years prior or 1870 and I would add the category, then add a "NOTE: BIRTH DATE IS ESTIMATED BASED ON THE MARRIAGE DATE" at the top of the biography.

Comments

Thank you. I love that everybody is so helpful here. It really makes things easier for me. I wish that somebody would contact that profile owner on the other site so that they could add the information to theirs, but I don't know how to do that, since I don't have a link there. The tips that everybody is giving on this thread are great! I started to do approx dates, and then changed to "Before this date" or "After this date" if I have any information to go on. I don't know why I didn't think of it for this case. Thanks again for your help. :)

Answer 4

Many people on WikiTree are happy to use estimated dates for birth or death in such a situation. Since I have found too many outliers in my own ancestry I like to stick with before and after dates instead. If there is absolutely nothing else I can find I think most people survive their wedding day and a death after that can be entered, if there are children, a death after the last child is likely. Also, sometimes at a child's wedding it's noted that the father is deceased, that lends itself to a before date. Unfortunately we don't have a life events field that could be used for "living at this event" dates.

Comments

You're so right. Thank you. It would be really useful to have that. I usually go by the order in which I found information on the profiles, rather than life events in order that they generally happen (birth, marriage, children, death), then I explain as I go that "He had a child in 1873, and that child married in 1892. He signed as a witness, so he was alive in 1873. I'll change the date of death to reflect "after 1873" or some such thing, so that people can see where I got the "after this date" thing. and things like that. It never said the "late" in the newspaper article where it said that his daughter married, so I'll go with him having died after that. Again, thank you for your help and advice.

Answer 5

I would like to add the location of birth and death is important as well.  Birth more so.  I do gedcom file imports and the system uses these dates in when it performs searches for Suggested Matches.  The problem is I see many names with dates and no location.  I think people are afraid to put in a location if they do not know the exact place name.  Anything helps here, even the country.

My family tree is chock full of Williams, Jones, Smith, etc.  I don't know how many times a suggested match will have close dates of birth and death and no locations.  So I have to click on that name and start looking for any data.  The sad thing is many of them have So and So was born in say NSW in their Biography as an example.  This is New South Wales in Australia.  If they just would have put Australia in the location field, it saves a lot of time and effort on those searching like names.  My folks are all USA or Europe and I could tell right away the person in Australia is not my person.  Locations can be marked uncertain as well.

Comments

Thank you for the help.The location thing is one that I have a problem with. I wish that there was a field for "known locations for this person", meaning that they had lived there, not born or died there.  For example, somebody was born in Scotland, moved to Canada as a child with her family, then married and moved to the USA. If you skip the Canada part, you might miss out on a lot of information on the person, as they likely had family in Canada, so research may be made in that location. You're certainly right, it does take an awful lot of time to go through and ask everybody if they have an approx location, a state, province or even country. If I see the location in their biography section, I'll add it for them to the top. I figure that I'm saving everybody time that way. Anyway, thanks so much for your advice. Maybe it's time to contact the admins to see if they can add "other locations" field.

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This is where the "Uncertain" button comes in. If they were married in Oxfordshire, their kids were born in Oxfordshire and they died in Oxfordshire, but I have no christening/baptism source, I tend to put born in Oxfordshire but mark it uncertain until a source turns up. It is far more useful to other genealogists to see "Oxfordshire" when looking at the surname list, than to see a blank space.

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Ah, yes, locations do seem to be very important. It certainly helps to narrow down the locations, so you don't have to dig into each individual profile during a quick search. That's something that I'll definitely have to keep in mind. Thank you for your ideas. :)

Answer 6

Hello, just saying hello. I'm in Fredericton, N.B., myself, and have often gone to the archives, although not for genealogical research (I research spray planes). I'm the only Adam in N. Amer. from our family, so I can't offer any help. Greetings, tho'.