? - EditBot "Trap" - Ships sailing or Arriving - date changes ?

Question

 - EditBot "Trap" - Some dates can span over two year Dates, as in  this one, which needs a modification please =

Editbot changed from = -    
[[Category: HMS Supply, '''sailed May''' 1787]] = to  = +    [[Category: HMS Supply '''1787''']] = but the fleet  = arrived at Botany Bay on '''18 January 1788''' after a voyage =
Therefore the '''Cat:''' needs to read '''1788''' = on Profile Arthur Phillip.  = cheers - john.a - - -

Comments

I do not follow you. If the category gives the name of the ship and the date it embarked why would you use the date that it disembarked?

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I agree with James Applegate.  The year to be recorded with a voyage is the departure date, not the arrival.  Charles Bates' encyclopaedic "The Convict Ships 1787-1868" bears out this as fact.  If the profile was only about the completed voyage then 1788 would be the date, but the First Fleet is about the nine-month voyage.  Regards, Ken.

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 - thank you Folks for the comments etc. -

= https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:1780s_Sailings  = and are you saying the other ten ships are wrong , because they are 1788 ? - = https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:First_Fleet =

- I know Aust is an upside-down place, but all the ships I have seen are by arrival , up to 8 mths later - - My main concern is what instructions were given to EditBot ? - -

cheers - john.a

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It's important to be consistent across all of WikiTree, and not have people doing things one way for some sailings and a different way for others. The established pattern for emigrant/immigrant passages (not just to Australia, but everywhere) is to date the sailings by departure, to use a full date, and to use the American style of dating. (As in, "May 13, 1787", rather than "13 May 1787".) Personally, I would have done the some things differently (like using a date format of "17870513", so that, as ships got fast enough to do multiple sailings per year, the trips would automatically sort chronologically), but even the worst system imaginable would be better than dozens of incompatible systems, with everybody doing their own thing.

Answer 1

The problem is that someone has gone and change the voyage category from "HMS Supply, sailed May 1787" to "HMS Supply 1787" and asked to EditBot to update the profiles (see edit on 20 Dec on Arthur Philips profile) with this Category

The category has to be re-edited to the correct one and Editbot reinstructed

Answer 2

Please consult A guide to categories for emigrant-immigrant ships. 

Arthur Phillip's profile should link to a category named, "HMS Supply, sailed May 13, 1787", and the "HMS Supply, sailed May 13, 1787" category should link to the HMS Supply (1759) category.

Greg

Comments

Not all emigrant-immigrant ships are recorded with both a sailing date and an arrival date. In my experience, we typically have only one date or the other (if we're lucky).

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I'm noticing that myself. The voyages to Australia have well documented arrival dates, but often the departure date is a lot more difficult to find. In most of the voyages from the era of sail the year of departure is enough as that is likely to uniquely identify the voyage, but even then the faster ships departing in January or February could be back for another voyage in November or December.

Answer 3

As far as I know, the categories were changed last year, John. As I had a convict whose Ship Category would be affected by the change, I had an email letting me know that the Year would be changing from arrival, as per the previous format eg Supply 1788, to the new format with the Departure Year eg Supply 1787, as that is the Universally accepted format & WikiTree wanted to come into line with that. Can't remember quite when, but maybe midyear?! Having said that, the rest of the Ships in the Fleet are still using the Arrival Date????, as you say. Maybe there hasn't been a definitive decision made yet. I know it's confusing when we are used to doing it one way & I still look for the wrong date as I was so used to the 'old way', but I'm improving, especially when having to make a new Listing for a previously uncategorized Ship. :)

Comments

I suspect that it's more a matter of people not getting around to changing all the profiles that need to be changed. Even with EditBot, getting things correct and consistent is a huge job which will take a lot of time, a lot of helpers, or probably both.

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You are quite right Greg, it is a work in progress. Eventually the whole First Fleet will be moved to the [[Category: Ship name, date of departure]] format.