Are Hugh Jones and others "Gateway" ancestors?

+7 votes
870 views
Hi.

I was wondering if someone could help me confirm whether or not Hugh Jones is a gateway ancestor? I was surfing through his dynamic tree and found loads of MPs and all kinds of royals up to some kinds and such. I dunno if this tree is bogus or not. Can someone help me out?

There are also a few others, too that I am unsure of. People like:

Mary Gilman: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gilman-2

There are a few others, too. Wasn't sure if anyone wanted the entire list. If they want, I can show you.

Just wanted to know before I added in their trees. Wikitree says I am connected to William De Berkley through Hugh Jones and I was wondering if that was accurate before I added the line to the main tree.
WikiTree profile: Hugh Jones
in Genealogy Help by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (766k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith

For example, here's my connection to one of the Magna Carta barons. I cut out up to the gateway lady: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Toothaker-66

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of George Waldegrave Esq. [confident] 
18. George is the son of Margery (Wentworth) Waldegrave [confident] 
19. Margery is the daughter of Henry Wentworth [confident] 
20. Henry is the son of Margery (Despenser) Wentworth [confident] 
21. Margery is the daughter of Elizabeth (Tiptoft) le Despenser [confident] 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Tiptoft) de Tibetot [confident] 
23. Robert is the son of John (Tiptoft) de Tibetot Knt [confident] 
24. John is the son of Agnes (Ros) de Vere [confident] 
25. Agnes is the daughter of William (Ros) de Ros [confident] 
26. William is the son of Isabel (Albini) de Roos [confident] 
27. Isabel is the daughter of William (Albini) d'Aubigny [confident] 
28. William is the son of William (Albini) d'Aubigny [confident] 

And here's from Hugh Jones to Thomas de Berkley:

13. Hugh is the son of Elizabeth Soame [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth Playter [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Playters [unknown confidence] 
16. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth Timperly [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Timperly [unknown confidence] 
18. Thomas is the son of Margaret (Howard) Timperly [unknown confidence] 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Elizabeth (Stafford) Howard [unknown confidence] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Edward Stafford [unknown confidence] 
21. Edward is the son of Henry Stafford KG [unknown confidence] 
22. Henry is the son of Margaret (Beaufort) Stafford [confident] 
23. Margaret is the daughter of Eleanor (Beauchamp) Rokesley [unknown confidence] 
24. Eleanor is the daughter of Elizabeth (Berkeley) Beauchamp [unknown confidence] 
25. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Berkeley [unknown confidence] 

Here are a few other Gateways I found. Elizabeth Best: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Best-11

13. Samuel is the son of Elizabeth (Best) Hunt [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Best [confident] 
15. John is the son of Henry Best [unknown confidence] 
16. Henry is the son of Henry Best [unknown confidence] 
17. Henry is the son of Richard Best II [unknown confidence] 
18. Richard is the son of Richard Best [unknown confidence] 
19. Richard is the son of Donald Best [unknown confidence] 
20. Donald is the son of Richard Best [unknown confidence] 
21. Richard is the son of Christopher Best [unknown confidence] 
22. Christopher is the son of Mary Hill [unknown confidence] 
23. Mary is the daughter of Warren Hill [unknown confidence] 
24. Warren is the son of John Hill [unknown confidence] 
25. John is the son of Joan (Basset) Hill [unknown confidence] 
26. Joan is the daughter of Joan (Grey) Basset [unknown confidence] 
27. Joan is the daughter of Maud (Verdun) de Grey [unknown confidence] 
28. Maud is the daughter of Eleanor (Bohun) de Verdun [unknown confidence] 
29. Eleanor is the daughter of Humphrey (Bohun) de Bohun Knt [unknown confidence] 
30. Humphrey is the son of Henry (Bohun) de Bohun [confident] 

13. Samuel is the son of Elizabeth (Best) Hunt [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of John Best [confident] 
15. John is the son of Grace (Boithes) Best [unknown confidence] 
16. Grace is the daughter of John Boithes [unknown confidence] 
17. John is the son of Agnes Waterhouse [unknown confidence] 
18. Agnes is the daughter of Agnes (Rushworth) Waterhouse [unknown confidence] 
19. Agnes is the daughter of Mary Keith [unknown confidence] 
20. Mary is the daughter of William Keith [unknown confidence] 
21. William is the son of William Keith [unknown confidence] 
22. William is the son of Robert Keith [unknown confidence] 
23. Robert is the son of Margaret (Fraser) Keith [unknown confidence] 
24. Margaret is the daughter of John (Fraser) Fraser of Touchfraser [unknown confidence] 
25. John is the son of Mary (Bruce) Fraser [unknown confidence] 
26. Mary is the daughter of Robert Bruce [unknown confidence] 
27. Robert is the son of Isabel (Clare) de Brus [confident] 
28. Isabel is the daughter of Gilbert (Clare) de Clare [confident] 

Margaret French Hill:

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of Anne (Drury) Waldegrave [confident] 
18. Anne is the daughter of Robert Drury [confident] 
19. Robert is the son of Felice (Denston) Drury [unknown confidence] 
20. Felice is the daughter of Anne (Calthorpe) De Calthorpe [unknown confidence] 
21. Anne is the daughter of Alianore (Mautby) Calthorpe [unknown confidence] 
22. Eleanor is the daughter of John Mawtby [unknown confidence] 
23. John is the son of John DeMauteby [unknown confidence] 
24. John is the son of Robert De Mauteby [unknown confidence] 
25. Robert is the son of Elizabeth (Clavering) de Clavering [unknown confidence] 
26. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Clavering) FitzRoger [unknown confidence] 
27. Robert is the son of Roger (Clavering) FitzJohn [confident] 
28. Roger is the son of John (Clavering) FitzRobert [confident] 

Here's Hugh:

12. Mary is the daughter of Hugh Jones [confident] 
13. Hugh is the son of Elizabeth Soame [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth Playter [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Playters [unknown confidence] 
16. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth Timperly [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Timperly [unknown confidence] 
18. Thomas is the son of Margaret (Howard) Timperly [unknown confidence] 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas Howard KG [unknown confidence] 
20. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Tilney) Howard [unknown confidence] 
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Cheney) Saye [confident] 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Cockayne) Cheyne [unknown confidence] 
23. Elizabeth is the daughter of Ida (Grey) Cokayne [confident] 
24. Ida is the daughter of Eleanor (Strange) de Grey [unknown confidence] 
25. Eleanor is the daughter of Ankaret (Boteler) de Ferrers [confident] 
26. Ankaret is the daughter of Ela (Herdeburgh) Boteler [confident] 
27. Ela is the daughter of Ida (Odingsells) de Clinton [confident] 
28. Ida is the daughter of Ela (FitzWalter) de Odingsells [confident] 
29. Ela is the daughter of Walter FitzRobert [confident] 
30. Walter is the son of Robert FitzWalter [confident] 

I found a few that are uncertain. So I won't link them.

Margaret French Hill again:

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of George Waldegrave Esq. [confident] 
18. George is the son of Margery (Wentworth) Waldegrave [confident] 
19. Margery is the daughter of Henry Wentworth [confident] 
20. Henry is the son of Margery (Despenser) Wentworth [confident] 
21. Margery is the daughter of Elizabeth (Tiptoft) le Despenser [confident] 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Tiptoft) de Tibetot [confident] 
23. Robert is the son of Margaret (Badlesmere) de Tibetot [confident] 
24. Margaret is the daughter of Margaret (Clare) de Badlesmere [confident] 
25. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas (Clare) de Clare [confident] 
26. Thomas is the son of Maud (Lacy) de Clare [confident] 
27. Maud is the daughter of John (Lacy) de Lacy Knt [confident] 

Looks like French is taking the lead here...

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of George Waldegrave Esq. [confident] 
18. George is the son of Margery (Wentworth) Waldegrave [confident] 
19. Margery is the daughter of Henry Wentworth [confident] 
20. Henry is the son of Margery (Despenser) Wentworth [confident] 
21. Margery is the daughter of Philip (Despenser) le Despenser Knt [confident] 
22. Philip is the son of Philip (Despenser) le Despenser Knt [unknown confidence] 
23. Philip is the son of Joan (Cobham) le Despenser [unknown confidence] 
24. Joan is the daughter of Joan (Beauchamp) de Cobham [unknown confidence] 
25. Joan is the daughter of John (Beauchamp) de Beauchamp [unknown confidence] 
26. John is the son of Cecily (Vivonne) de Beauchamp [confident] 
27. Cecily is the daughter of William (Vivonne) de Forz [confident] 
28. William is the son of Mabel (Malet) de Vivonne [confident] 
29. Mabel is the daughter of William Malet [confident] 

Hugh to Mowbray:

12. Mary is the daughter of Hugh Jones [confident] 
13. Hugh is the son of Elizabeth Soame [unknown confidence] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth Playter [unknown confidence] 
15. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Playters [unknown confidence] 
16. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth Timperly [unknown confidence] 
17. Elizabeth is the daughter of Thomas Timperly [unknown confidence] 
18. Thomas is the son of Margaret (Howard) Timperly [unknown confidence] 
19. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas Howard KG [unknown confidence] 
20. Thomas is the son of Thomas Howard KG KB [unknown confidence] 
21. Thomas is the son of John Howard KG [unknown confidence] 
22. John is the son of Margaret (Mowbray) Howard [unknown confidence] 
23. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas (Mowbray) de Mowbray KG [confident] 
24. Thomas is the son of John (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
25. John is the son of John (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
26. John is the son of John (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
27. John is the son of Roger (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
28. Roger is the son of Roger (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 
29. Roger is the son of William (Mowbray) de Mowbray [confident] 

French:

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of George Waldegrave Esq. [confident] 
18. George is the son of Margery (Wentworth) Waldegrave [confident] 
19. Margery is the daughter of Henry Wentworth [confident] 
20. Henry is the son of Margery (Despenser) Wentworth [confident] 
21. Margery is the daughter of Elizabeth (Tiptoft) le Despenser [confident] 
22. Elizabeth is the daughter of Robert (Tiptoft) de Tibetot [confident] 
23. Robert is the son of John (Tiptoft) de Tibetot Knt [confident] 
24. John is the son of Agnes (Ros) de Vere [confident] 
25. Agnes is the daughter of William (Ros) de Ros [confident] 
26. William is the son of Robert (Ros) de Roos [confident] 
27. Robert is the son of William (Ros) de Roos [confident] 
28. William is the son of Robert (Ros) de Roos [confident] 

13. Martha is the daughter of Margaret (French) Hill [unknown confidence] 
14. Margaret is the daughter of Thomas French III [unknown confidence] 
15. Thomas is the son of Bridget (Higham) French [unknown confidence] 
16. Bridget is the daughter of Phyllis (Waldegrave) Heigham [confident] 
17. Phyllis is the daughter of Anne (Drury) Waldegrave [confident] 
18. Anne is the daughter of Anne (Calthorpe) Drury [confident] 
19. Anne is the daughter of Elizabeth (Stapylton) Stapleton [unknown confidence] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Katherine de (la Pole) Harcourt [unknown confidence] 
21. Katherine de is the daughter of Anne (Cheney) de la Pole [unknown confidence] 
22. Ann is the daughter of Nicholas Laurence Cheney [unknown confidence] 
23. Nicholas is the son of John Cheney [unknown confidence] 
24. John is the son of Henry Cheney [unknown confidence] 
25. Henry is the son of William (Cheyne) de Cheyne [unknown confidence] 
26. William is the son of Agnes (Say) de Cheyney [unknown confidence] 
27. Agnes is the daughter of William (Say) de Say [unknown confidence] 
28. William is the son of Geoffrey (Say) de Say [confident] 

12. Samuel is the son of Mary (Gilman) Folsom [unknown confidence] 
13. Mary is the daughter of Mary (Clark) Gilman [unknown confidence] 
14. Mary is the daughter of John Clark [confident] 
15. John is the son of Elizabeth (Egglesfield) Clarke [confident] 
16. Elizabeth is the daughter of Humphrey Clarke [uncertain] 
17. Humphrey is the son of John Clark [unknown confidence] 
18. John is the son of William Clarke [unknown confidence] 
19. William is the son of Robert Clarke [unknown confidence] 
20. Robert is the son of Matilda Echingham [unknown confidence] 
21. Matilda is the daughter of Thomas Echingham [uncertain] 
22. Thomas is the son of Joan (FitzAlan) Echingham [unknown confidence] 
23. Joan is the daughter of John FitzAlan [unknown confidence] 
24. John is the son of Richard (FitzAlan) de Arundel [confident] 
25. Richard is the son of Alice (Warenne) FitzAlan [confident] 
26. Alice is the daughter of Joan (de Vere) de Warenne [unknown confidence] 
27. Joan is the daughter of Robert de Vere [confident] 
28. Robert is the son of Hugh de Vere [confident] 
29. Hugh is the son of Robert de Vere [confident] 

3 Answers

+13 votes
 
Best answer

The (240) Gateway Ancestors are American colonists with Magna Carta ancestry whose well-documented ancestral lines are documented in Royal Ancestry: a Study of Colonial & Medieval Families by Douglas Richardson (2013), Volumes 1-5, and in Magna Carta Ancestry: a Study of Colonial & Medieval Families, also by Douglas Richardson (2011).

Hugh Jones and Martha French Hill are not found in this list of Gateway Ancestors that have documented connections to a surety Baron.  However,  there are colonial immigrants that appear to have Magna Carta lines on WikiTree that do not appear in the list of known Gateway Ancestors.  However, in many cases there are no sources that prove these lines and finding documentary support for these connections can be challenging.    That appears to be the case in the two trails you present.  Note that many of the relationships are marked "unknown confidence" and each will require evidence to prove the proposed relationships. 

Colonial Immigrants who have unverified trails to a Surety Baron that are not found in the Douglas Richardson references listed above are called Questionable Gateway Ancestors https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Questionable_Gateway_Ancestors 

Determining the validity of a trail between a Questionable Gateway Ancestor and the Surety Baron is done by researching the line and "proving" the relationships.  The exception to this is if a line has previously been researched and disproved.

In the case of the line from Hugh Jones it appears that Margaret Howard Tiperly may be problenatic as Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, 2nd Edition indicates that Thomas Howard and Elizabeth Stafford had two sons, Henry and Thomas. they also had three daughters, Muriel, Katherine and Mary. Margaret Howard is not indicated as a daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth Stafford.

 

 

by David Douglass G2G6 Pilot (127k points)
selected by Susan Laursen

That's through someone who has an unknown place of birth. Here's an earlier part of that line:
 

1. Chris is the son of [private mother] [confident] 
2. [Private] is the daughter of Natalie Felker [confident] 
3. Natalie is the daughter of Austin Wilfred Felker [confident] 
4. Austin is the son of Wilfred W. Felker [confident] 
5. Wilfred is the son of Elizabeth Deborah Fellows [confident] 
6. Elizabeth is the daughter of Mary Ann (Smith) Fellows [confident] 
7. Mary is the daughter of Abigail Bailey [confident] 
8. Abigail is the daughter of Molly Standley [unknown confidence] 
9. Molly is the daughter of Mary Putney [unknown confidence] 
10. Mary is the daughter of Elizabeth (Snow) Pudney [unknown confidence] 
11. Elizabeth is the daughter of Samuel Snow Jr. [unknown confidence] 
12. Samuel is the son of Sarah (Wilson) Snow [unknown confidence] 

Wilson appears as a link to two guys. Hmmm.....

Congrats, the Wilson line is a proven line from the immigrant Elizabeth (Mansfield) Wilson on.  The line was proven in an article by Anderson himself in 2001, and is included in Richardson's Royal Ancestry for easy tracing.

  • The New England Historical and Genealogical Register. vol. 155 no. 1 (January, 2001): 3-35. The Ancestry of the Royally-Descended Mansfields of the Massachusetts Bay, by Robert Charles Anderson, F.A.S.G., John C. Brandon, and Paul C. Reed, F.A.S.G. AmericanAncestors ($) LINK
  • Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, in 5 vols. (Salt Lake City, Utah, 2013): vol. II page 530.
Nice. Looks like I'll be adding them on. Starting from one of the Snows, I believe. Thanks, Joe!
WikiTree shows Elizabeth Mansfield descending from all 17 barons.  I don't trust the Huntingfield line, but the other 16 look good.

Mostly by multiple routes - maybe 200 or more lines altogether.
She was also the wrong mom for Sarah Wilson's dad. Disconnected her yesterday. Medieval genealogy is weird. Still got Gilman and that other lady to check out. No idea how accurate those are.

As for the Royally-descended bit, it's Edward III.  We've got the Uncertain flags out here

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Greystoke-36

But I don't think we need them.  I have this vague idea that the doubt was only created by a mistake in an old book.

 

Gotcha. I honestly don't care if I have a baron in the tree. Or any royal. It's neat. But, if a tree is messed up it's annoying. Already had to fix two here. =)

Hugh Jones and Sarah.Wilson's parents.

Dunno how accurate the other ladies are. Posted the trails.
RJ thanks for weighing in on this discussion.  Your input is always welcome
Greystoke. She appeared in the line. Her stuff and a few others seem dubious. Great input, RJ!
+11 votes
by Doug Lockwood G2G Astronaut (2.7m points)
Okay. From a quick glance I don't see names that look familiar.

Could some be missing?
nope - the table on that page has the 240 Gateways listed by Richardson in the front matter of ''Magna Carta Ancestry'' (Thanks RJ!)

The names listed are linked to their WikiTree profiles. Their profiles are also included in the category. The table is less fluid & also allows us to note which are in a badged trail (the ones with a "b").
Good to know.  Thanks, Liz!

Not really looking to see who DOES have a legit connection. Just funny to see these random connections pop up. I have no idea if they are legit.

I think I might have more of a chance on the French side to be related to French aristocracy because of all the Quebecois I have.

It really doesn't matter to me.

I love how frequently i find "new-to-me" ancestors when I check if I'm related to someone. You didn't turn up anyone new, but we're 10th cousins 1ce removed through Pierre Perthuis. Hi cuz!

Cheers, Liz

Hi! Nice to meet you!
+3 votes
I just posted all my connections to the Magna Carta signers. I left out the ones that were flat out uncertain. The rest may be possible. I noticed Hugh Jones and a couple other names pop up as possible links to the barons.

On Geni I have a possible connection to Thomas De Berkley via Michael Metcalf:

https://www.geni.com/path/Chris-Ferraiolo+is+related+to+Thomas-de-Berkeley-5th-Baron-Berkeley?from=6000000059612437261&to=6000000000615178001
by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (766k points)
edited by Chris Ferraiolo

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