Proposing to disconnect Jacomynte Kunst (married Henry Pawling) from all parents

+5 votes
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Jacomyntje Kunst, born approx. 1690 (based on date of her marriage), "is supposedly" the daughter of Jan Barentsen Kunst (born 1638, died by 1668 -- died kind of early to have a child in 1690!) and Jaquemijne Cornelis Slecht. Jacomyntje has a second profile https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Eltinge-17 that makes her a daughter of a later husband of Jaquemijne's, Jan Roelofsz Elting. No record has been found of Jacomyntje's birth (the records from Kingston, where she would have been baptized, are pretty sparse around 1690), and since she was recorded with the last name of Kunst at her marriage (documented to be her first marriage), it's likely that her father was named Kunst (not Elting).

Carrie added a note to Jacomyntje's profile indicating that she was most likely a granddaughter of Jan Barentsen Kunst, not his daughter. I agree, based on the dates.

I propose to disconnect both of Jacomyntje's profiles from all of the parents that are connected to them, then merge her two profiles into Kunst-50, since Kunst is the earliest last name documented for her. Any objections?
WikiTree profile: Jacomyntje Kunst
asked Feb 9 in Genealogy Help by Ellen Smith G2G6 Pilot (753,910 points)
But then does this mean that there will be no connection available for potential DNA match testing of the currently attached siblings?

Would it make sense to detach from the grandparents, but then maintain an Unknown profile as father, marked with Uncertain Parents?

Hmm...

I don't like the idea of maintaining impossible parent-child connections (as exist now) in order to automagically propagate DNA to "ancestors" who may or may not be ancestors.

Anyway:

  • As a female, Jacomyntje won't have Y-DNA connections to anybody (so no valuable data is lost there)
  • She is (by my estimation) at least 7 generations removed from anybody who could have taken a DNA test, so the chance of autosomal DNA matches between her descendants is small
  • It's unusual to be able to trace maternal-line ancestry through 7 generations or more. Anyone who successfully traces to her and has mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) data should be able to research possible mothers/grandmothers for Jacomyntje using whatever information is added to the text section of the profile.

As regards the proposal for an Unknown father, if I was looking for a possible father for Jacomyntje with the name of Kunst, I would start my search with the minimally sourced (and internally inconsistent) profile for Barent Kunst, son of Jan Barentsen Kunst.

Thanks Ellen. Since you have great understanding of the situation and the DNA system, and this G2G will be attached permanently to the profile (I hope), I withdraw my objection.

Since posting this, I noticed that Barent Kunst's widow Gerritje Gerrits was a witness to the baptism of one of Jacomyntje's children, which I think increases the likelihood that Jacomyntje was Barent's daughter:

  • 1716 Jul 08. Zara - Henry Paaling, Jacomyntjen Kunst. Witnesses: Jacob du Bois, Gerritjen Gerrits.

I think it would be indeed more likely (based on the dates + the baptism where Gerritjen Gerrits is a witness) Carrie was right and she was a granddaughter, daughter of Barent Kunst and Gerritje ? So I think it's save to keep her attached but now as daughter of Barent and you can of course mark the parents as Uncertain for now ?

Here's some info from this thread, they also mention a child Jacomijntgen Barents Kunst

Jacob Dubois b10/09/1661 married his first wife Lizbeth Vernoy b1662 m03/08/1689, d 1690. in Kingston 

They had one known child, Jacomyntie Dubois. 

Widower Jacob married Gerritje Gerrits Van(nee Nieuwkerk) Kunst b 1669 (It was her second marriage too. She was the widow of Barent Jans Kunst). 
 

It has been suggested that their first child "Barent" was named after Gerritje's deceased first husband. 

Barent Dubois b05/03/1693 then married his older half sister Jacomyntie Dubois b1889/1890 on 04/23/1715. She was the only issue from Jacob's first marriage with Lizbeth Vernoy. 

(One other fact jumps out. The only child of Barent Jansen Kunst and Gerritje Gerrits (nee Neiuwkerk) was a girl who was named (just to keep us confused) Jacomyntie Barents Kunst.) 

Too bad that forum poster didn't mention where that "fact" came from!
Yes we will need to look for the facts ourselves..  Already trying to find some for them ;)

Is it known where Henry Paaling  or his Ancestors originally were from ? Pawling sounded really English, but Paaling sound very Dutch ;)

From the discussions on that forum that Bea linked to, I infer that land records have been an important information source for genealogists working on the Du Bois family (the family of Gerritje Gerrits's second husband). Land records and similar sources that aren't readily available online or in libraries outside the local area might also confirm the parents of Jacomyntje Kunst. At the moment, I think there is a reasonable basis to connect her to Barent Kunst and Gerritje Gerrits as her parents, with the "Uncertain" qualifier. I'm still hoping to hear from the various members who created profiles for Jacomyntje Kunst, on the chance that they have information not included in the profiles they created.

As for the Pawling/Paling family, I am not aware of any information on the origins of the presumed immigrant, Hendrick Pawling. Although he traces as my ancestor, I haven't researched him (I have an unusually large number of identified ancestors), and the family hasn't received much attention from other WikiTreers. He easily could be Dutch or English, but I have a hunch that he was English. The records of his life that are documented here on WikiTree are church records that were presumably created by Dutch speakers. They mostly recorded his name as Paling or Paelingh, but those could be phonetic spellings of the English name Pawling -- and there's one Dutch church record that spells his name Pawling. He was never recorded with a patronymic name (on records from 1679 to 1692), which suggests that he might not have been Dutch. His wife was Dutch (born in the Netherlands), which is a hint that he might have been Dutch. One of his daughters (my ancestor Weyntje) married a man whose parents were both English (indeed, her husband's father was a British military commander who apparently was hated by New Netherland settlers), which makes me think she also might have had English roots.

The Pawling family was most definitely English. Historical accounts in the Pawling Genealogy book at https://archive.org/stream/pawlinggenealog00pawlgoog indicate that the "immigrant ancestor" was named Henry Pawlling, a British Army captain who was first recorded in New York in 1670.

Here's an  Isaac Paling mentioned in the Austin Friars Dutch Church in London it says he came to England with his wife Susanna from the Hague. Member of the Dutch Church in 1682.   No Pawling unfortunately..Paling is a quite 'popular' (early) last name in the Dutch archives (See for example  Leiden  it even looks like perhaps the above mentioned Isaac married his Susanna here ? So distracting these searches :P), so that's why I was wondering if it was a 'Dutchified' English name or a Dutch 'Anglofied' one ;)

With many people sometimes going back and fort from one Country to the next and sometimes again to a different one it sometimes is really hard to tell where they originally came from eeh . 

I've connected this woman to Barent Jans Kunst and Gerritje Gerritsen as her parents, and I merged her two profiles.

Thanks Ellen :)

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