Death of Beatrice Grey and Birth of son Walter Grey

Question

IF YOU HAVE BEATRICE, WHO IS WALTER'S MOTHER DEATH DATE AS 1218 AND WALTERS BIRTH DATE AS 1222, HOW CAN THIS BE IF SHE DIED 4 YEARS BEFORE HE WAS BORN.

Comments

Not a comment on her death but I found the following in British History Online - Sculcoates Parish.

The first demesne Lord of Sculcoates, seems to hav been Benet de Sculcoates, who held it late in the 12th Century. By 1221 the manor had passed to Robert de Grey, Benet’s nephew by marriage. Sculcoates remained in the hands of the Greys until late in the 14th century. They at first held 12 bovates of the Archbishop of York and by 1294 they had acquired the remained 4 bovates.

This same land was recorded in the Inquisition Post Mortem of her great grandson, John Grey, dated 20 October 1311: York - Inquisition taken at Kyngeston upon Hull on Sunday after St. Martin, 5 Edw. II. Scolcotes. A capital messuage, 12 bovates land, and the advowson of the church, jointly held by the said John with Margaret, his wife, to them and to the heirs of the said John, of the Archbishop of York by homage only; and 4 bovates land jointly held, as above, of the heir of Godfrey de Melsa, who is in the king’s wardship, by homage, and service of 4d. yearly for wapentake fines. John, his son, aged 10 and more, is his next heir.

If her husband was the nephew by marriage of Benet de Sculcoates, that would mean she was the daughter of a sibling of Benet, probably a brother. 

I cannot find where her given name is shown except in Wikitree with no sources. Wikitree also shows her as the daughter of Guillaume (Senlis) de St Liz.of Huntingdonshire who does not seem to have anything to do with this Sculcoates family.

Answer 1

Unfortunately like many profiles of this era on WikiTree, at present the profile for Beatrice has no sources at all, and although the profile for Walter has a source for his inheritance it doesn't seem to confirm his birth date.

Without sources we can't know if the date Beatrice died is correct or Walters birth date is correct or in fact neither date is correct or even if the relationship between mother and child is correct.

Gradually these problems are being worked on but given the complexities involved and the difficulties in finding reliable sources for this time period, progress is slow.

Answer 2

Beatrice seems to have come from the same stable as the highly imaginative Alice (Senlis) de Thornhill on the Norwood thread. 

MedLands thinks Beatrice was a St Luce not a St Liz

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm#_Toc436926780

No dates.

 

Answer 3

It gets worse, see

https://books.google.ca/books?id=2KrPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA600&dq=beatrice+AND+robert+grey+of+rotherfield&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6v-zSnu3pAhXhc98KHUxhAZIQ6AEIMTAB#v=onepage&q=beatrice%20AND%20robert%20grey%20of%20rotherfield&f=false

Curiously, I was just looking at the Greys yesterday, trying to sort out exactly who was Eleanor, sister of Bishop Walter de Langton, who married successively Sir Robert de Bruce and Sir Richard Waleys. 

Walter's uncle was William Langton Archbishop of York elect, who was "the son of Robert de Gray of Rotherfield Greys, who was the brother of Walter de Gray, Archbishop of York". So who does that make Eleanor, mother of Alice Waleys Peverel? 

The family was closely connected with the manor of Offord Daneys, a big flurry about that property about 1330 when Alice's son Edmund died leaving a minor son who likely dsp'd.

Whoever Beatrice is, she's a direct ancestress of mine (as is the mysterious Eleanor) and it would be nice to have them sorted.