Need help breaking down my GURNEY wall.

+6 votes
313 views
Thomas F. GURNEY

born 1900 ferry road Chelsea, Maine.  Died 26 may 1959

Married Mary A. Bradley

Mary is born 1910

I am trying to find his mother and father.

Father is in a census in 1900 Augusta, Maine. But I can not access it.

Thomas has a sister Margaret M. GURNEY birth date unknown. I estimate between 1896 and 1904.

 

possible relatives:

Alpha C. Gurney

Ann P. Gurney

Archie Gurney

Georgie W. Gurney

James C. Gurney

Jeffery Thomas Gurney

Muriel L. Gurney

Shane D. Gurney

Valerie W. Gurney
in Genealogy Help by Doris Harrington G2G Crew (810 points)
edited by Doris Harrington
This is so helpful but takes all the information I found a different direction. Hmmm. Now its going to take a bit more looking and searching. But thats the fun of doing this. Thank you so much for your help I appreciate this a lot.

2 Answers

+8 votes
Hi Doris! you can probably see the 1900 census at Family Search with a free membership.  I will cut and paste the info below.

Also, i wonder if Thomas's middle initial isn't actually J as noted on the marriage registration index and at Find A Grave.  

https://www.familysearch.org/register/1

Could i also suggest that you start profiles for Thomas and Mary here at WikiTree.  That will make it easier for other WikiTreers to help out.

 

Cheers

Shirlea
by Shirlea Smith G2G6 Pilot (284k points)
edited by Shirlea Smith
I see that on Ancestry, some family researchers are equating your Thomas with Thomas Joseph Gurney the son of John and Sarah Gurney.  If so, that would be interesting, since that family is actually French Canadian and are enumerated on the 1910 census as Gagne tho on the 1900 census as Gurney.  But i don't see a sister for Thomas called Margaret yet in that family.  Could she be a sister-in-law?  was she ever married? was Gurney her maiden name or married name?

Before believing that your family and this Gagne family are the same, i would suggest that you do whatever is necessary, even paying the Maine Vital Statistics people, to get a copy of the actual marriage registration of Thomas and Mary in 1927.  The crucial matter is who Thomas says his parents are and whether he says he was married before, because i found a marriage registration for Thomas the son of John and Sarah getting married in 1918 to Angal Massie.  Of course she could have passed away between then and 1927, leaving Thomas a widower free to marry Mary.  

Cheers

Shirlea

Thomas F. Gurney

 

Born 1900 Chelsea, Maine. married Mary Bradley Born 1910

 

Ronald E. Gurney born 1933 Maine

Larraine Gurney Born 1936 Maine

Effie Belle Gurney Born 1938 Maine

Add more later. Sorry for misinformation earlier.

   
   
   

 

   
   
   

 

   
   
   

 

Don't think of it as misinformation, it's all just research which leads us to develop an hypothesis which we then test.  If our hypothesis withstands the test, we keep it, but keep our minds open for additional proofs or disproofs, if that is a word!

Cheers

Shirlea
I was wondering the same thing. I am getting really confused trying to find the right one. If I chase the thomas F. line I get feedback that says his parents as possibly canadian. if thats the case my thomas could be born in 1899. If I go through the cemetery I find his middle name as Thomas J. and everything matches except for maiden names one says bradely and one says brayley. So I know what the obituary says for Ronald Edward Gurney but am really confused on which one I should chase. So many mispellings in so many trees on so many sites I am getting confused.

 

http://obituaries.centralmaine.com/obituaries/mainetoday-centralmaine/obituary.aspx?n=ronald-edward-gurney&pid=167390463&
+6 votes
Good morning, Doris! Well, in cases like this, it always helps to go back to what you know for sure, and review it and see where it leaves you.

When i look at the info so far, i am convinced that Ronald Edward Gurney, Lorraine Gurney, Effie Belle Gurney and David Gurney are a family group.  Except for David, who is younger, they appear together on the 1940 census.  This family grouping is totally consistent with family memories at the time of writing Ronald's obituary.

In the 1940 census, this group of siblings are with their parents Thomas and Mary.  Thomas is shown there as Thomas F Gurney, and Mary as just Mary.  The family member who wrote Ronald's obit thought that Ronald's father was Thomas J Gurney.  Census takers were not aware that we would later pore over their handwriting to glean info about our relatives.  They just needed to get some names down so they could count them.  They were hearing hundreds of names a day.  They may have gotten the job because of their connections rather than their qualifications for the work.  All of that needs to be considered when reviewing their output.  If the informant at Thomas and Mary's household said that Thomas's name was Thomas Joseph Gurney, the census taker may have just caught the 'ph' at the end of Joseph and thus written down F.  Maybe the informant was a neighbour and actually thought it was F instead of Joseph.  

When considering whether to think the census taker is more credible or the family member who wrote the obit is more credible, in this case i'd go with the family member who wrote the obit.  They at least cared about it and probably ran it by another member of the family.  The census taker just wrote it down and went away without even showing the page to the informant.

But still there could be some double-checking happening.  The birth certificates of Ronald and his siblings should be procured to see what they say. Since their births are less than 100 years old, they are not going to be online.  Now we are right back to old-fashioned pre-computer genealogy, when we had to pay money and wait weeks for every tiny crumb of information!  But one free bit of research could be happening.  Was there a Thomas J Gurney and a Thomas F Gurney both present in that part of Maine at the same time on any of the 1940, 1930, 1920, 1910, and 1900 censuses?  Or even another Thomas Gurney or Thomas Gagne of the same age? If so, maybe there are two separate men, and you will have to follow the careers of both in order to sort out who is who.  If not, maybe Thomas J and Thomas F are the same person, depending on what his children's birth certificates say.

The children's birth certificates are also the best source of info on Mary's actual last name.  Ronald's obit-writer says Brayley and says her family was from Gardiner.  (If you are not still living in that area of Maine, you are probably going to have to become familiar with the smaller towns or areas so that you know what was meant by Gardiner and Chelsea.  Also, addresses or property ownership could help confirm links between individuals)  The marriage index for when Thomas J Gurney married Mary A Brailey in 1927 spelled it Brailey.  Here's where you need to research the Brailey/Brayley family of Gardiner.  Did they standardize their name as Brayley after 1927?  Did the clerk at the registration office in 1927 just take his best stab at it but the family themselves were already standardized as Brayley?  Did Ronald's obit writer take his/her best stab at it without checking with the Brailey/Brayley relatives?  Ronald's obit was only written 5 years ago.  It might be possible to ask the writer where he/she got their info.  They might haul out some birth certificates or a family bible....or was the obit writer you as the family genealogist, going with remembered family tradition?

It is unlikely that there were two separate families in the area, one Brailey and one Brayley, and that they were using the spelling to differentiate themselves from each other.  But it is still something to consider and rule out.   Is there a Mary Brailey and a Mary Brayley both appearing on any single census between 1910 and 1940?

Now Bra*ley versus Bradley/Bradely is another matter.  I haven't seen the source for Bradely yet.  Can you point me in the right direction to see that? Is there other evidence of such a family in Gardiner at the time?

It is primarily the relatively recent time frame of this research that is slowing you down, because of privacy concerns.  Once you get into the next generation, you will probably find smoother sailing until you get into pre-census generations.  If this line does go back to French Canada, you will find meticulous record-keeping and even Dictionaries of the families back to the 1600s.  So don't give up; just put your work on a solid foundation even if it takes a little bit extra at the beginning of sorting out this part of your family.

Thanks for making profiles for Thomas and Mary and some of the children.  Ronald Edward Gurney is well documented at Family Search.  Here is a trick i just learned the other day from a video made by Eowyn, one of the core WikiTree team, that maybe you could use to good effect for Ronald.  When you are on his profile, look at the top right hand corner where you will see the links to the drop-down menus,  Hover over Gurney-909 so you will see that long menu that starts with Compact Tree/Cousin Bait/etc. They are in alphabetical order,  so zip down to Research.  It is a direct link to FamilySearch, and if you are logged in to FamilySearch already, it will pre-populate the facts about Ronald and run the search before you can even blink.  You can even use their clipboard to grab the info to bring it back to paste in your WikiTree profiles.

Cheers

Shirlea
by Shirlea Smith G2G6 Pilot (284k points)
edited by Shirlea Smith
I just talked to Ronald Edwards Gurney's granddaughter. She has verified that his fathers name is Thomas F. Gurney. Not much is known the family really does not know much about the family history. Thomas's wife is Mary Brayley. Thomas was born in Maine. He did marry in maine. He was also born in chelsea, maine about 1900. But any more information is not available. When she goes home she is going to ask her grandmother if she has her grandfathers birth certificate. If not available she is going to try to send for it. But if like most of the relatives born in the time frame if he was born at home then we would still need to find the town he was born in to get a copy of birth certificate. This is not my first brick wall but I am getting closer to finding the answer. I really appreciate everyone in helping me find the answers. I enjoy helping people chase their ancestors but usually I have a little more to go on. This is the second family that I have tried to chase and found multiple names with same dates. Have a blessed day and thanks again everyone.

 

more information I did get more information on Mary A. Brayley.

A birth certificate. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RYD-XQ1?cc=1803978

 

Census with Mary Agnes Brayley. Everything fits as to the information I just got. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRJZ-944Y?i=11&cc=1727033
Here is the info for ordering the records directly from Vital Stats in Maine.  

 

http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/mecdc/public-health-systems/data-research/vital-records/order/order1.html

 

Only $15 each, which seems to me like a good price after paying around $40 each for lots of British birth/death/marriage records.
yes, the frequent use of the name Effie B certainly helps tie these families together!
Updating my brick wall. I am now in need of just some information on how to trace Canadian Immigrants. I have gotten all the information the family had. Here it is:

Lewis Gurney b. Jan 1835 Canada d. 28 Jan 1901 Maine

spouse Abbie Mason b. unk           d. 17 Nov 1921 Maine

immigration 1888

Lewis had a half-sister Florence I. {Gurney} Humphrey

b. 1854 d. 1926

 

1900 census Readfield Town, Kennebec, Maine

John Gurney b. Jan 1869 Maine age 31

Fath Lewis Gurney b. Jan 1835 Canada age 65

spouse Sarah Kilby b. Jun 1874 Canada age 26

Fath b. Canada mother b. Canada

immigration 1888

birth 7 children - 4 living

dau Victoria b. Jan 1891 Maine age 9 yr

son Arthur b. Jan 1897 Maine 3 yr

dau Lura b. Jun 1898 Maine 2 yr

son Thomas b. Jan 1835 Maine 1 yr

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also have John T. which in census could be Thomas. He could be John Thomas. Not sure but John T. Gurney is listed in another bible as son of John Gurney and Sarah Kilby. John T. Gurney was born 26 Jan 1890.

Lewis Gurney b. 1835 Canada d. 28 jan 1901

spouse Abbie Mason b. unk d. 17 Nov 1921

lewis and abbie had a dau Bertha L. (Gurney) Kimball age 23 at time of death. b. 13 Apr 1879 Macwahoc, Aroostook., Maine d. 27 Aug 1902 Macwahoc, Maine

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