Bogus LYON Ancestry?

+7 votes
350 views

Has anyone ever taken a critical look at the supposed ancestry of Benjamin Lyon ( Lyon-165) and his father Henry Lyon (Lyon-161) There are dubious references (first hand knowledge, just to name one), an ancestry that seems to move back and forth between Middlesex and Scotland, and so on.

There is a webpage concerning a fraudulent Lyon pedigree, http://dgmweb.net/Resources/GenLin/Gen-Lyon-BogusPedigree.html, that has some similarities to the one in WikiTree.

The ancestry probably should end with his father, Henry. 

Any thoughts?

WikiTree profile: Henry Lyon
in Genealogy Help by George Fulton G2G6 Pilot (341k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith

 

Benjamin Lyon

 in the U.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970

ViewU.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970

      Name: Benjamin Lyon
      SAR Membership: 22880
      Role: Ancestor
      Application Date: 10 Mar 1911
      Spouse: Bethyn Lyon
      Children: Benjamin Lyon

      Source Citation

      Volume: 115

      Source Information

      Ancestry.com. U.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011

      Benjamin Lyon

       in the New Jersey, Abstract of Wills, 1670-1817

      ViewNew Jersey, Abstract of Wills, 1670-1817

          Name: Benjamin Lyon
          Residence Date: 18 Feb 1719
          Residence Location: Newark, Essex, New Jersey, United States

          Source Information

          Ancestry.com. New Jersey, Abstract of Wills, 1670-1817 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.

           

          •  

          Benjamin Lyon

           in the U.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970

          ViewU.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970

              Name: Benjamin Lyon
              Birth Date: 1726
              Birth Place: Will
              SAR Membership: 13404
              Role: Ancestor
              Application Date: 14 Sep 1900
              Father: Henry Lyon
              Spouse: Beitha Lyon
              Children: Benjamin Lyon

              Source Citation

              Volume: 68

              Source Information

              Ancestry.com. U.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.

               

               

              Benjamin Lyon

               in the Abstract of Graves of Revolutionary Patriots

                  Name: Benjamin Lyon
                  Cemetery: First Pres Churchyard
                  Location: Elizabeth NJ 52

                  Source Citation

                  Abstract of Graves of Revolutionary Patriots; Volume: 3; Serial: 11670; Volume: 3

                  Eddie

                  Thank you for these, unfortunately, I cannot view these from home; I should be able to do so at the library.

                  George
                  I found 3 Benjamin Lyon men. Different guys ! One from Massachusetts, 2 from New Jersey.
                  He is in my ancestry.com geneology tree

                  4 Answers

                  +6 votes
                  Some thoughts... this is a pretty awful profile.  It is filled with contradictory information, unproven internet fantasies, and no believable sources.

                  There is no evidence as to his parents, and they should be disconnected.  There is apparently Y-DNA evidence that he is someway related to Richard Lyon, but there is no way to use this to prove a relationship.

                  The chances that someone admitted to the Milford, Connecticut church in 1648 had his origins in Scotland are essentially zero.  Without strong primary evidence to the contrary, it is safe to say he was born somewhere in England.

                  His April 1623 birth date is unsupported by primary evidence.  It should be about 1623 as his gravestone reads "died 23 mar 1707 aged 84 years."  This also makes the date of death wrong on his profile.

                  He did not immigrate in 1630.  The earliest record of him is apparently in 1647.
                  by Joe Cochoit G2G6 Pilot (211k points)
                  My thoughts as well ... pretty bad.
                  +6 votes
                  The whole line is problematic since  an earlier  profile in the pedigree  is for John Lyon, died 1592, the founder of Harrow school .https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lyon-732

                   The problem is that John Lyon and his wife Joan, died without issue.

                  https://archive.org/stream/harrowschool00howsrich#page/20/mode/2up

                   I notice Joe suggests unlinking the parents. This is the course of action that often occurs in these cases.It is a pragmatic solution for the early immigrant to America and his descendants. However,  in this case, as I've seen before,  it will leave an equally unsound pedigree behind.  What I've noticed is that ,  because there are no descendants with an interest,  the  false pedigrees can remain forgotten, and unimproved for a very long time . (I don't know the answer, but these  'disconnected pedigrees' are a concern of mine    )
                  by Helen Ford G2G6 Pilot (303k points)
                  edited by Helen Ford

                  Perhaps this is an artifact of the zeal to “connect” everyone.

                  As I explore relationships I sometimes find 15th, 20th and more remote cousins, as I step through some of these pedigrees, the connections are based on dubious sources that are difficult to verify.

                  I wish there was a way to easily print out these lines with the whole profile and sources. This lack makes it difficult to look at the whole line. I for one find to difficult to work with just the electronic data. Even the ability to print a complete family group sheet, one by one, with notes and sources would help. Copying a profile into a word processor, which I’ve done, leaves a lot to be desired.

                  +2 votes

                  American book here

                  https://archive.org/stream/lyonmemorial01lyon#page/12/

                  This makes the founder of Harrow the cousin not the son of the John who married Emma Hedde. 

                  Apparently the cousin and the son were both born about 1510 and had fathers called John and wives called Joan.  But the son lived at Ruislip and Stanmore and had kids.

                  * Henry
                  ** Henry, of Ruislip, 1440
                  *** John, of Ruislip, 1470, m Emma Hedde
                  **** John, of Stanmore, 1510, m Joan
                  ***** William, m Isabel Wightman
                  ** John, of Preston, 1450, m Joan
                  *** John, of Preston, 1510-1592, m Joan
                  ** Thomas
                  *** Sir John, 1490, Lord Mayor

                  But somehow on WikiTree, the 6th Lord Glamis has become the father of Emma Hedde's son, instead of his namesake that she was married to.

                  And conflated-John's wife conflated-Joan has become a Lyon by birth, at the price of being older than her grandmother.

                   

                  by RJ Horace G2G6 Pilot (565k points)
                  edited by RJ Horace

                  Note that the last paragraph on https://archive.org/stream/lyonmemorial01lyon#page/10/mode/2up cites Welles' American Family Antiquity as the source for some or all of its information. That's Albert Welles.

                  +5 votes
                  Think of the differences between "mistake", "legend" and "fraud".  A mistake is an error made in good faith that can be corrected and the error goes away.  A legend is something perhaps made in good faith that has widely circulated on the internet and if it isn't recognized will keep getting put into WikiTree.  A fraud is a deliberate false genealogy that's been put out there, often to help someone make some money.  It sounds like what you have here is a fraud.  Here's a good write up about how to handle them!  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:About_Frauds_and_Fabrications_Categories

                  A separate category for the fraud needs to be created and all profiles affected by the fraud need to be categorized by the fraud -- even genuine profiles.  The narrative in the profile needs to distinguish between true facts and what is fake.  

                  The reason for this is not only to correct what is fake, but also to keep others from re-creating the fake genealogy.
                  by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (345k points)

                  The Lyon / Bowes line linked at the top is blatant fiction and should go on the list.  But we don't actually have it on WikiTree.

                  What we have is

                  - the usual hopeful connection of the immigrant to a promising English family

                  - a conflation of two Johns which is just a misreading of the book (which is clear as mud)

                  - 2 attempts to connect to the Scots which aren't in the book, and are clumsy and incoherent and don't pretend to work and should be on the Suggestions list.

                  The Glamis family connected to are the Queen Mother's genuine ancestors.

                  What might be worrying is this page

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyons_family

                  which connects all Lyon and Lyons families into one great big happy ancient family.  It's written by one person and its big ideas seem to come from one book, "A Most Remarkable Family" by Michael Hewitt, 2014 (footnote 6).  The "publisher" AuthorHouse is a self-publishing outfit.  I haven't seen the book but I can't help wondering if the sources for its connections are adequate.

                   

                  I have mainly concentrated on disconnecting my immigrant ancestor https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lyon-47 from fanciful English ancestry (and keeping him from being reconnected), but I believe there is genuine FRAUD behind some of the bogus Lyon family genealogy. Albert Welles (see Category: Albert Welles Fraud) seems to be the original source for some particularly dubious connections.

                  The relatively recent self-published and widely advertised book A Most Remarkable Family also seems to be responsible for propagating a lot of nonsense about people named Lyon. [RJ: The book is partially available in preview on Google Books. It's horrendously bad.]

                  ADDED: My reasoning for calling this fraud is that the Lyon Genealogy, Massachusetts Families cites Albert Welles as the source of the account (beginning on page 24 -- link is to Google Books, may not work outside the U.S., but the book is available on multiple free websites) of the glorious ancestry of my immigrant ancestor.

                  This book is available from online book sellers in both print and electronic formats. It is not expensive, and might be worth getting for a review.
                  The bit of the Remarkable Family that  I could see on the online preview  managed to have a Katherine Lyon dying in 1616, in Picardy  (didn't say Y but I suspect that is where it was)

                  I've transcribed the Will of William Lyon d Sept 1624. He mentions eldest son William, son Thomas who is executor along with his wife Joane (not Isabelle) and five daughters (link in comment on profile.) No other sons mentioned.

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