When I give a location in Finland should I be including one of the 19 regions and/or one of the six provences?

+2 votes
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When I list a location in Finland I generally give the farm/village, parish and country, e.g Mälkilä, Perniö, Finland. Using the convention of smallest to biggest moving from left to right.  Should I be adding the region e.g Mälkilä, Perniö, Egentliga, Finland; the provence Mälkilä, Perniö, Western Finland, Finland; or both  Mälkilä, Perniö, Egentliga, Western Finland, Finland.

And should I be using Finnish, Swedish or English?

WikiTree profile: Sofia Ekman
asked in Policy and Style by Norm Lindquist G2G6 Mach 4 (44.1k points)

2 Answers

+3 votes
You know the Finland project is about to be started, I’m sure there will be guidelines on the project page when it has been acknowledged by the team and we get the chance to work with the project.
answered by

That is the purpose of the question.  If you are interested, please join. Project Finland

+3 votes
I use Village, Parish, Country. Village and parish as they are written in the church book, and country in Finnish as per WT guidelines. It would be easier for the international public if we used Finland instead of Suomi. Worth a discussion too.
answered by Juha Soini G2G6 Mach 5 (57.8k points)

Out of respect for the country I used to use Sverige for Sweden.  Swedes seemed to mostly use Sweden, so so do I now.

Finland is multilingual and it seemed impossible to decide what was the language used at a random time, so now I use Finland.

In Sweden the County (län) seems to be an important part of a location. That does not seem to be the case in Finland.  Maybe it should be.  If so, we should decide and change our ways.  It would also be important on the Finland project page.  I have seen locations with parish farm; from left to right and with no comma.

Counties in Sweden help distinguish between parishes with the same name. Finland has no parishes with the same name as far as I know, so parish name and country puts you in the right area. I know of one exception to the rule, Salo used to be the name of a parish far up north on the west coast. It is now called Saloinen and Salo is a town in southern Finland, though most of the church books available to us have it as Salo-Uskela or Uskela, that is the parish where the town is situated. There are also other big towns that have both a city parish and a rural parish named alike, sometimes even a military parish, but they would always be in the same area.

There will always be people who do it their own way regardless of rules or recommendations, but I would like for us to be able to agree upon a place naming recommendation from smallest to biggest.

That would be Farm, Village, Parish, Country. Many times in marriage records the place of the wedding would not be mentioned, and the only thing you can use is the Parish and Country unless a source for the place of the wedding can be found elsewhere.
With or without commas.  I have seen many without commas and I do not like that.
I always use commas. It looks better that way. Do you think even the commas should be made a recommendation?
Yes. Then if we find them missing , we can justify putting them in.

I think we should make the county optional. I use Åland with my profiles fro that region. The use of countries in other parts of Finland is a learning tool for me. My knowledge of Finnish geography is very limited so I need all the help I can get.

Juha, the 20 geological areas shown at Hiski http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/8vi29y?se+A01 are they the same as the modern regions/maakunnat/landskapsförbund of Finland? 

Historic geographical references in Swedish litterature seems based on län/läänit/province so I think each parish should have a parent category of both maakunnat and läänit.  

No profiles should be placed in a top category (Finland/Suomi) so if you only know that someone died in Uleåborg for instance, then the profile can be placed in the category for that län/läänit/province.

Edit:  Forgot to add... We are allowed to use spaces, commas, hyphens and parentheses in category names. For more information about category names, check this help page

http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski?fi uses the regions I had in mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Finland with two exceptions. They have Uusimaa divided into Uusimaa and Itäuusimaa (Itä = east) and they have the parishes surrendered to Russia after WWII as a region of their own. We should  probably have the surrendered areas as a separate region as well?

Should we go with the 21 regions Hiski shows or use the 19 official regions adding surrendered areas as the 20th?

There will be profiles belonging to that area surrendered so we need some way to categorise those.

Once the project has been officially started I think we should start working together with a handful of profiles and discuss in the project forum how to categorise them the correct way and building category structures.
I have been looking at the ancestors of profiles which contain Finns. I get a sense of where in Finland these people lived when the region is included in the location. I would suggest we use the Finnish name for the region except for Åland.
You have a point there and I always listen to good arguments. Rules of naming both persons and places will be subject to discussion among the members of the project as soon as we get it started.
Category streams are in one language.  if your category stream is in Finnish, then it should be Category: Suomi.  If your category stream is English language, it should be Category: Finland.  And you can have both.

This is different from what one puts in the data field, where the preference is to use the language that the individual would have used.
I think we were discussing location fields here. We cannot in most cases tell if an individual was Finnish- or Swedish-speaking. The clergy wrote all names in Swedish regardless of the linguistic preferences of the individual. The Finnish genealogists are divided in this and many choose to translate the names into Finnish. Project Finland has come to the conclusion that we recommend the use of the language used in the sources but will not at the moment enforce the recommendation. That means we should use the place names written in the sources, but as the country most often is not mentioned, there is a choice of using either Suomi or Finland based on bilinguality.
Sorry I was just responding to another question about categories and was still thinking about categories.  You are correct about the locations in the data field.

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