Please remove PPP from Buckner-941

Question

Could someone please remove the PPP from Buckner-941? I contacted Southern Pioneers Project months ago and never got a response. I don't even know if they're the ones who protected it, but there's no reason whatsoever that this profile should be protected.

Thanks in advance

Comments

It appears that Southern Colonies protected this on 15 Jan 2017, so they should be the ones to remove it. I don't see any specific reason it might have been protected, other than when Southern Colonies took over management of the profile, it might be policy within the project that all profiles are project protected. If this is the case, hopefully one of them will notice this thread and drop by and then remove the PPP. I'll try to keep an eye out in case this gets lost in the mix and poke someone if this turns out to be the case. Email can be very easily lost in the barrage of emails that come out for a project, but G2G seems to be a bit easier for a project leader to find and review for "to do" lists like this.

Thanks!

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It looks like there may have been some issues with erroneous parents being attached. PPP can prevent that sort of error.

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There were never any parents attached, at least not that the change log shows and certainly not since I've been editing it. They had a birthdate that probably came from a fraudulent source, though I took that off a while ago.

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There are a lot of controversies in this line, but Mordecai's parentage is not one of them. His mother's will is pretty definitive, and even Jim White's nutty fantasy genealogy agrees that his father was Thomas Buckner of Caroline Co.

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Unlocked profile

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Excellent - thanks much!

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It would be great to see the mothers will added to her profile.

Answer 1

The Southern Colonies created the profile. They didn't just take it over.  Eric Daly was a researcher who assisted SCP.

Comments

Have you looked at the profiles?

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And it is not "book vs. book", Lynette. What book is there that says anything other than that Thomas Buckner and Mary Timson were his parents? It's in at least 3 secondary sources, directly attested in a couple wills, circumstantially supported by dozens of primary sources. Compared to what you guys had in the original profile, this is insufficent for you?

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I looked at the profiles you created, which could have been added and connected without removing the PPP.  I was referring to the source you gave 5 months ago.

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Call the Library of Virginia which holds the Will books and ask the librarian to look for BUCKNER. 

The user submitted transcriptions Book E  of Spotsylvsnia County

Library

http://www.lva.virginia.gov/about/contact.asp

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Lynette, if you had wanted to know the source 5 months ago and you couldn't find it in either of the profiles, what should you have done? Reply to my comment in the discussion on the profile asking for more information about the source. Just say "I can't find which source shows Thomas was his father." You're telling me that I did wrong by not discussing it, and guess what? I tried to discuss it. I have evidence I tried to discuss it, and 5 months ago, you and/or whoever else is in SCP apparently didn't give a fig about it. Well, if you didn't give a fig about it then, why are you wasting my time arguing about it now?

The main source is Crozier, who I cited. https://books.google.com/books?id=h0obAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA159#v=onepage&q&f=false
Crozier's not perfect, but he cites the will that proves the relationship, and I've checked it a dozen different ways. It shows up various places in old genealogy articles. It's in a footnote on the Washington archives. https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/02-08-02-0316

Here's an independent transcription of Mary's will on GenWeb: http://files.usgwarchives.net/va/spotsylvania/wills/buckner-mary.txt
It's perfectly in accord with Baldwin Mathews Buckner's will, which calls Mordecai his brother.

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OK, so you posted on his profile "...His father is Buckner-1222 and you can add it if you want. I don't have permission to because it's in this Southern Pioneers Project thing." You could have added your information to the profile text, with sources, but apparently you didn't choose to do so. Did you expect that your "add it if you want" note would induce a volunteer project leader to drop everything and spend hours researching your hint in order to edit the profile on your behalf? And then thank you for giving them the opportunity to research your genealogy for you?

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When I started working on the profile, it already was citing two different sources that said Thomas Buckner was his father, and I added another one when I was working on the bio. I assume the only reason he hadn't been added already is that he didn't have a profile, so I created one. WITH SOURCES. How many sources do you require?
Here's the thing that you people don't seem to get. I DON'T expect you to drop everything and work on profiles I'm interested in. However, YOU LOCKED ME OUT OF THE PROFILE. If you hadn't locked me out of the profile, I would have happily added it myself with all the dozens of sources that I have cited on the relevant pages, like I've done with a dozens of other profiles. Is this too hard for you people to understand? YOU SET UP THE REQUIREMENT THAT MAKES IT NECESSARY FOR YOU TO EDIT THE PROFILE.
Are you seriously going to sit there and berate me for using the system that you people set up? If you don't want people to have to "bother" you to edit profiles, DON'T MAKE IT NECESSARY FOR THEM TO DO IT.

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Ben, have you ever heard the saying "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?

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I have no experience researching people in Virginia and I'm not involved with the Southern Pioneers project. If I was, your "add it if you want" note on that profile, without more information or even a link to the other profile, probably would not have induced me to add the parents -- unless I happened to have a particular interest in this man. And accusatory comments certainly wouldn't motivate me to collaborate with you.

You did a nice job of the write-up on the Thomas Buckner profile. If you wanted a positive response from the project, you could have created a similarly nice write-up in your message on the Mordecai Buckner profile saying "I've created a profile for this man's father Thomas Buckner, based on information in [Names of sources] and I'd like to have him connected to this profile as the father." And it would help to include a link to the Thomas Buckner profile -- to save another person the trouble of typing the ID into the URL bar.

Like I said, try honey instead of vinegar.

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Thank you Ellen,

Ben, why didn't you join the SCP if you felt the PPP was stopping you from adding content with sources?

Oh BTW, even tho I have worked with SCP nearly since I have joined WT, I didn't actually become a member of the project till later. I'm not a leader, I'm only a project coordinator. So 5 months ago, this wasn't even on my radar.

Answer 2

what is PPP ?

Comments

Project-protected profile. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Project_Protection

Answer 3

Bill,

I understand the frustration of not getting a response.

Wikitree's honor code asks (requires?) us to assume good intentions.

I happen to know that at the time you posted your profile comment, the southern colonies project was in transition. Its leader had stepped down and I'm not even certain what it's current status is. They may still be working things out. That might have contributed to the lack of response.

As others have suggested, you could , in the meantime, still have added the details to support the relationships. For example, I'd still like to see the text of the mother's will.

Comments

Jillaine, my name is not Bill. Also, I "added the details to support the relationships." You, and Ellen, and Lynette keep telling me I should have done things that I did, that I obviously did, and for which it is easily verifiable that I did. I don't know why. I'm not assuming anything about your intentions.
I don't see anyone assuming my good intentions. I tried to solve the problem the way you people keep telling me I should have solved it, and it didn't work, so I did what I see other people doing, which is to request that the PPP be removed. It seemed pretty simple. It worked. The profile is fixed. I wanted it to be a simple thing, and it should have been. I don't know why you and other people seem to want to turn this into a giant battle.
As I said, if you don't want this to happen, the solution is very simple. Don't apply PPPs to profiles that don't need them. If they have PPPs and don't need PPP, just remove them. It seems easy to me.

I'm willing to spend my time doing research and documenting research. I'm not willing to spend time arguing with people who make false claims about what I've done, who make comments about things that that obviously haven't read, and generally waste time arguing about pointless things.

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My apologies for getting your name wrong.  

I was trying to provide some additional context about transitions in the Southern Colonies project that may have contributed to the lack of response.