What is the best way to confirm my DNA connection with my deceased father?

+10 votes
459 views
My dad died 18 years ago and I have no direct relatives of my dad that live in Australia (i.e. dad's siblings, his parents are deceased) but I have two brothers.  I am hoping one of my aunts or uncles have done tests and will ask when I visit in May.
WikiTree profile: Nikki McGuinness
in Genealogy Help by Nikki McGuinness G2G2 (2.8k points)
retagged by Ellen Smith
I removed "mitochondrial" from your tag list and replaced it with "y-chromosome" because mitochondrial DNA won't tell you anything about your father's family -- we all get our mitochondria from our mothers. But y-DNA testing of your brothers could be informative.
If you have living aunts or uncles anywhere in the world, then I would reach out to them via email or phone call and ask if they would be willing to take a DNA test (and do offer to pay for it).

Beyond DNA confirmation of your father, what other goals would you have with testing your parental line DNA?  To help with tracing the genealogy on that side of the family? To explore the patrilineal lineage?

I would recommend ordering a DNA kit from FamilyTreeDNA, because they allow not just for autosomal DNA testing but also mitochondrial and Y-DNA testing (which you may wish to upgrade to at a later date, depending on your research goals).  

My Dad passed before autosomal DNA testing became widely available.  My aunt, his only sibling, was very happy to test.  Best of luck!
Thank you.  I am new to all of this :)

This comment is off-topic, forgive me, but your bio was quite interesting!  I went looking for more info on Hugh McIver, and found some things, many of which I know you already have.  I hope you'll add profiles for Hugh and his parents and siblings.  I suspect there are one name studies for both McGuinness and McIver/McIvor, and they may have DNA data, probably yDNA based.

For James McGuinness:

For Hugh's family:

  • 1901 Scotland Census - parents Hugh(46) and Mary(42), Hugh(10), Jane(1), and other siblings but missing John(12)
  • 1891 Scotland Census - parents Hugh(34) and Mary(30), Maggie(5), John(2), Hugh(8 months), Kate(17, Hugh's aunt?)

For Hugh:

 

Hehe I am glad you thought my bio was interesting, I was worried I would put everyone to sleep.

I have an Ancestry.com tree which I am going to try and download and bring across the information in an attempt to avoid entering in each person one at a time, if I can, I am still going through how-tos, as I have only just found this site.  I am glad I did though.  

My tree has a fair bit in it about Jane and her parents/siblings etc. (assuming I found the correct people, they loved to recycle names back in the day).

I will try and get the info up ASAP.

3 Answers

+8 votes
If money is no object, test everyone. You should share 50% of your DNA with each brother and 20-30% with each aunt and uncle.

If money is an issue, test yourself first and see if you can find any relatives of your father in the matches. Then you can start in on the brothers, aunts, and uncles as money and opportunity permits.

A single match with a brother won't 100% confirm your father, only that you share the same father, however, you can use your judgment there. Likewise, a 20-30% match with an aunt or uncle simply confirms that a sibling, parent, or child of theirs is your father but once again, you can judge the most likely option there.
by Davis Simpson G2G6 Mach 2 (27.0k points)
Thank you.  I did an AncestryDNA test, and have so far only matched with distant cousins that I am unable at this stage make a connection with.  Although I have just connected with a second cousin this evening, who I believe is a cousin of my dad, one of his mum's sisters' children. I am awaiting confirmation.

I haven't found a lot from the Ancestry one at this stage.  Would there be a test better suited for my situation (i.e lack of knowledge of family!)  I am going to buy my mum one to do, for her side, so I would like to perhaps try another company. Ancestry was really the only one which I could find in Australia at the time.
If you've found a second cousin of your Dad's, that might be enough for you, unless you have some specific reason to believe differently. Of course, for genetic genealogy purposes, more testing is always helpful. Get those uncles and aunts tested!

Autosomal tests are the best to take. You can try to spread out your net by transferring your Ancestry DNA results to GEDMatch, Family Tree DNA, and MyHeritage but Ancestry will have many more matches than all of those combined with many more family trees. I have about 150 cousins worked out from Ancestry and probably 30 on all the other services combined.

The advantage of these other sites is that they have a chromosome browser but that's only useful if you really get into genetic genealogy and you can convince other cousins to transfer their results.

My advice would be to work more on the family tree, both up to identify ancestors, and down to figure out cousins.
This is great information. Thank you for sharing. I'm awaiting my AncestryDNA results now and this post will be very helpful.
+8 votes
Hi Nikki,

I have a similar situation as my dad passed away 27 years ago. Having my mom tested was extremely helpful as it allows me to determine which of my matches are through my dad by process of elimination. My sister was also tested which has also been very helpful as we have many different matches. Having your brothers tested will provide significantly more opportunities for matches with close relatives (2nd or 3rd cousins).

In the end, as Davis mentioned, it is often not truly possible to prove a parent/child relationship beyond any doubt without testing both the parent and child. What you can do however is increase your level of confidence to near certainty. Having aunts and uncles tested will add to this level of confidence and may also provide unique matches that may help.

Regarding testing, I personally would wait for a sale and test at Ancestry. While they lack the necessary tools to do serious genetic genealogy (and evidently have no interest in providing them in the future) they do have one of the largest pools of people and the only way to find matches with them is to test there as they don't allow uploads. Once you get your results at Ancestry you can download them and then upload them to GEDmatch, FamilyTreeDNA and MyHeritage all of which allow free uploads and provide better tools for researching matches (access to the chromosome browser at FTDNA costs $19/kit but is well worth it if you want to do any serious research). On second thought, since your kit is already at Ancestry you might consider having your mom tested at 23&me as they also do not allow uploads but, again you can download the results and upload to some of the other sites (I'm pretty sure GEDmatch allows them but you might want to check with FTDNA and MyHeritage first). It costs a bit more but it might be the most cost effective way to spread your results around.

I'd also pass on the yDNA and mtDNA tests at this point, especially if cost is a concern. I've done them both and found them of very little value from a genealogical perspective. All that said, a BigY test at FTDNA for one of your brothers and one of your dad's brothers would go a long way toward confirming the paternal relationship. Problem is they run close to $500 each and they still can't technically determine that one of your uncles was not actually your father. You could possibly rule that situation out with autosomal tests but it requires some luck and is rather complicated, basically looking for matches that you might share with one of your dad's sisters (or at least don't match your mom) but not with any of his brothers.
by Paul Chisarik G2G6 Mach 3 (34.1k points)
+7 votes

Hi, Nikki. Since your mother is living and willing to take a test, this gives you a big advantage toward your goal. You're absolutely correct to make your mom's test the next priority after your own. Like Jana, I tend to steer folks toward Family Tree DNA if there is no preference or reason otherwise; this simply because they store the samples submitted and new tests and upgrades can be ordered years later against that original sample.

However, I'd tend to stay with Ancestry for your mom in this case. Your autosomal DNA test looks at defined places, loci, on your chromosomes called SNPs (single nucleotide polymorphisms, pronounced "snips"). Not every testing company looks at the same SNPs--for example, new 23andMe and Living DNA tests examine only about 23% of the same SNPs as your Ancestry test--and to get the two to compare requires some mathematical smoke and mirrors called imputation. A brief explanation of imputation is at this blog post from last Wednesday; scroll down a couple of paragraphs to find it. But the message for you and your mother is that it's best that your two test results compare one-to-one as closely as possible: the more tested SNPs you have in common, the better.

Which leads me to the next steps with those two sets of results. You'll download the raw data files for both tests (that's done through the AncestryDNA user interface; it's easy to do) and then you'll want to create one account at GEDmatch.com--you can manage multiple kits from the same account--and upload the raw data from both tests there. GEDmatch is free to use for it's basic tools, and those give you arguably a better set of autosomal DNA features than any of the testing companies.

One of those features is called Phasing and it will give you a two-click way of creating a simulation of your father's genome--a "pseudo-genome," if you will--that establishes a new kit number under your account which you can then use to run matches and comparisons against, just like your and your mother's kits. I know it sounds slightly creepy, but once again it's only math. What this single-parent phasing attempts to do is identify what SNPs you did not inherit from your mother and use that information to create the new missing-father kit.

The new kit won't be a perfect simulation of what your father's results would have been if he had been able to take a test himself. That's because the DNA tests can't determine which allele you got from which parent at any given base pair, or locus. For example, let's say at one locus your test results show the paring guanine (G) and cytosine (C); and your mother's results also show a G and a C at that locus. Which one came from your father? There's no way to tell. Your father might have had either GC, GG, or CC at that locus in his results, so there's really no way to make an informed guess with any accuracy. The end results is that the new "pseudo-genome" will be comprised of significantly fewer SNPs than your original one, and the more tested SNPs you and your mother have in common, the more can be accurately included in the new simulation.

The result won't be perfect, but it certainly will be good enough to do its job: helping you determine which aunts/uncles, nieces/nephews, and cousins match your mother's side of the family, and which match your father's. I know this isn't exactly the question you asked, but the real goal of genetic genealogy is growing a base of strong evidence to aid in the evaluation of current and future DNA-matching scenarios. I'd personally put the words "confirm" and "prove" in the use-seldom file. DNA is just like any other evidence for genealogy: everything falls somewhere on a sliding scale from "absolutely true" to "absolutely false or irrelevant" and has to be scrutinized on a case-by-case basis. With autosomal DNA, for example, a match to a hypothetical 5th cousin will require a lot of detailed work and amassing of additional evidence in order to be considered strong evidence, whereas a match with a 2nd cousin is easier and more straightforward. And as with that possible 2nd cousin you just found, the evaluation of the DNA evidence goes hand-in-hand with the genealogical, paper-trail evidence. Since we can't test deceased ancestors, we have to rely on DNA matching with contemporaries...and that means getting back to earlier generations requires a solid paper-trail to complement the DNA evidence.

With you and your mother tested, I'd set Priority 3 at one of your brothers. That would do two things. First, it would corroborate, as full DNA siblings, that you both share the same mother and father. That would give you the ability to set the WikiTree status of your father's profile as "confirmed with DNA." Second, with that validation, should you decide in the future to have your brother's Y-chromosome tested for a deeper dive into your patrilineal line, you have the objective substantiation that you are, in fact, testing the correct yDNA. If both your brothers also have their atDNA tested, that opens up a new avenue called "visual phasing" uniquely available (mostly uniquely, anyway) to a family that has three full siblings tested. That's an advanced technique that would be down the road in your research, but you can Google it if you want some background on it.

Just because I said that a brother would be Priority 3, don't hesitate to broach the subject with your aunts and uncles when you visit in May. When it comes to DNA, the more the merrier!  :-)  The general adage is test older relatives first so that you don't lose the opportunity. And aunts, uncles, and half-siblings thereof are priceless because they're going to be a generation farther back than you are, and they will absolutely help you sort out which DNA comes from whom. A free tool you may want to explore to help you store and track that information is DNA Painter. From GEDmatch, you can copy-and-paste information directly into DNA Painter, making it fairly simple to use.

Bottom line is that the more data you have about closer family members (i.e., through 2nd cousins), the easier it will be to accurately evaluate matches from more distant cousins. Folks like Jim Bartlett who helped pioneer the use of autosomal triangulation routinely have triangulation groups of up to 20 DNA-tested individuals to help them validate a 4th or 5th cousin relationship. By nature, genealogists have a bit of Sherlock Holmes in them. DNA is a powerful new tool...not yet 20 years old, and the first autosomal testing for genealogy is less than a decade old. The more we dive into it as a form of evidence, the more addictive it can become.  ;-)

by Edison Williams G2G6 Pilot (439k points)

Wow thank you so much for taking the time to give me all that information, it is very much appreciated, and so very helpful.

I have just tried GedMatch.com and found something which I think could be helpful, but I am not quite sure how to interpret it.  I have found some information on the estimated MRCA, and I think I have matched with someone quite closely (unknown to me), as far as I can tell, it could be a first cousin, maybe.  I am still trying to wrap my head around all of the terminology, I hope I am not too much bother to you all :)

The result I got was this:

Minimum threshold size to be included in total = 500 SNPs
Mismatch-bunching Limit = 250 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 7.0 cM

Largest segment = 281.5 cM
Total of segments > 7 cM = 3,585.1 cM
23 matching segments
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 1.0
440525 SNPs used for this comparison.

I also got this match from another person:

 

Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
X 69,660,976 111,541,677 26.2 3,182

Chr 23

Largest segment = 26.2 cM
Total of segments > 7 cM = 26.2 cM Actual.
Comparison took 0.44229 seconds.

Are either of these helpful, in my circumstances?

Nikki, I ran to GEDmatch right away as soon as I saw your message. Happily, I didn't pass out since I didn't see that first match you described when using your GEDmatch ID and doing a one-to-many search.

Whew! The reason? There are only three relationships that could account for a total autosomal DNA sharing on GEDmatch of 3,585cM: parent, child, or identical twin!

I did see one match at 187.6cM which is most likely a 2nd cousin, but could be a half 1C1R or even a half GG aunt/uncle or niece/nephew. Very promising. I don't see the 26.2cM X-chromosome match, either, but I do see two--they look like the same person who tested with two different companies and included both kits in public searches (generally considered bad form)--at 23.5cM. Since you get half your X-chromosome from your dad and half from your mother, until we have the data from your mom (or enough information from DNA cousins) we're not able to use the X just yet in helping determine relatives of your father.

If you want to send me a private message from my profile, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Williams-49144, I'll be happy to see if I can help you sort a few things via email. If you have the kit number of that 3,500cM match, send that along. I'd love to find that one and figure out what's what.

Edited to add: I also noticed that one of your top five matches at GEDmatch used an Australian email address. Also very promising!

There are a few tricks to GEDmatch that can be very helpful in tracking down matches. The first thing to look for is obviously a gedcom file or that rare, elusive beast - a link to the matches Wikitree profile. In the likely event that neither exists I usually first do a search using the matches' email in the GEDmatch "User Lookup" tool. This will list all of the kits associated with that email address and also any gedcom files if they have them. If that fails I run the "One-to-many matches" tool for the match by clicking on the L in the "List" column for the match. Sometimes people will have very close matches like parents, children, siblings, aunts, uncles or even first cousins who do have gedcoms from which you can determine your matches' tree. Finally I check to see which testing company the match had their test done at. You can tell by the first letter of the kit number (A = Ancestry, T = FTDNA, etc). In your case your closest three matches are all from Ancestry and the next two are at FTDNA. You should be able to find your matches at Ancestry since that's where you had your test done. They are often just listed by initials but it should be easy to decipher, as many of your matches used what appear to be real names on GEDmatch (or at least close enough to figure out initials). The matches won't be identical in size at Ancestry but they should be roughly the same size. I'd guess that your closest match on GEDmatch should fall under the 2nd Cousin category on Ancestry. Very often people who don't have gedcoms on GEDmatch will have a tree on Ancestry (or FTDNA or MyHeritage, etc). You can check for trees on FTDNA and MyHeritage by creating free accounts on the sites and uploading your DNA results. The final effort is of course the email or Ancestry message.

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