Did you see the new 'Is there a project for these pre-1700 people' form? [closed]

Question

Hi WikiTreers,

We just added a form to make it easier for a new member to ask in G2G if there's a project that covers the pre-1700 profiles they plan to add or edit.

To see it, click the "request help finding out if a project exists" link on the Pre-1700 Self-Certification Quiz.

Update: Here is an example of a "Is there a project that covers these pre-1700 people?" question.

Hopefully members will understand the form, and our generous community here will be able to help answer their questions. If the form isn't being used well, or if the questions overwhelm the community, we will make adjustments.

One thing we're discussing is setting up an alternative contact method. The member could either post publicly in G2G or send a private message to a group of experienced pre-1700 project leaders, coordinators, and greeters. Having the two options might make more people feel comfortable asking for help, and prevent either avenue from being overwhelmed with questions.

Onward and upward,

Chris

P.S. Active members may remember discussions from a few months ago about whether to make requesting help a requirement. We are not adding any new requirements here. This is just an option to facilitate more communication.

Comments

It's a welcome addition, Chris. However, this form needs to be promoted and accessible beyond the Pre-1700 quiz .

Will a link be added to the Help Index (we could use a link for Stickers, too) and/or to the Help drop-down menu?

Will it be integrated into the creation of new and editing of old Pre-1700 profiles (an alert banner, perhaps)?

This form should be made available to all members, not just to new members when they take the Pre-1700 quiz. Most members may not admit it, but style guidelines (particularly those related to collaboration and communication) are quickly forgotten once we "get in the zone" of creating and editing more and more profiles.

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I'd like to see the link on the various pre-1700 help pages. As Lindy said, those of us who have been here a while need it too. I'd never think to go to the pre-1700 Quiz page if I was trying to figure out which project applied. I'd be visiting the Pre-1700 Projects help page, the Projects Help page, the Project FAQ, and the Pre-1700 Profile help page. The link added to those three pages, with a sub-heading so that it could be referenced directly in G2G posts and comments, would go a long way to making it both easier to find and easier to help others find.

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A link to the Category Search would be really helpful  https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=003048598688029858478:aemrovxydzo

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Thanks, Lindy and Debi. We are moving forward on adding the alternate contact method: privately e-mailing the pre-1700 leader/greeters group. We will add the form, let the community experiment a bit and see how it goes, then start adding more and more links. I think we could fit one in every pre-1700 status message.

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Is there a delay in the process of a member being able to add pre-1700 profiles?

Sweden project have just had some contact with a new member (as of today) who have both the Sweden Project badge and pre-1700 badge who says he can't add children to a profile born 1676.

Edit: Either there was a temporary glitch or it helped loggin out and logging in again, member can now add the children.

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Hi Chris, I am certified for pre 1700 profiles but I kept get a link to ask for help. Does it now show up for everyone even if they are a member of the pre 1700 project?

Thanks

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This banner shows up for EVERYBODY every time we edit a pre-1700 profile. We don't need to fill the form out every time we see it, and failure to fill in a form does not prevent completion of the edit. But if you are editing pre-1700 profiles and you aren't engaged with a relevant project, you should fill out the form to initiate coordination with a project.

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Ellen,

I enter many profiles that are pre-1700, sometimes 20-30 a day - I have no idea what project if any they might be connected to - should I answer the question on every profile?  Or only on certain profiles and if so which ones?

Thank you.

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Philip, the people who are screening the emails generated by this form would wring your neck if you submitted 20 to 30 per day!

But if you (as a very experienced WikiTreer) don't know which project (if any) is interested in a particular pre-1700 profile or family, it's probably time to ask -- either with this form or by personal message to someone you are already in touch with who might be knowledgeable about the topic.

I looked in your recent edit history for pre-1700 profiles where you possibly weren't aware of the cognizant project. I stumbled on Jeremias Mabie, born 1699, who belongs in the New Netherland Settlers Project as a New Netherland Descendant, but hadn't been added to the project. (This profile was somebody else's creation that you edited.) I added the project box to the profile, I added the project as project manager, and I corrected the LNAB to Mebie to conform with the project's naming conventions. If you are going to be doing more work with people like Jeremias, please know that the project scope includes descendants of New Netherland settlers born as late as 1776, and there's a complex set of naming conventions, responding to the unusual complexity of the names found in this population.

And now that you know that, I expect that you will be interacting with the New Netherland Project as appropriate, and don't need to ask about that project again.

Answer 1

I'm afraid this form is not generating the intended result. The form is being submitted in G2G quite frequently, however, it is seldom filled in and is pretty useless in most instances. I'm not sure what the answer to this problem is but perhaps the fields could be self-populating when someone attempts to edit a pre-1700 profile.

Answer 2

That's a very helpful addition to WT.

Answer 3

Could the link not pop up when you input a pre 1700 date? Also does this need to say its mainly Americans or notables that should ask. Many English parish records go back to the 1530s so will be loads of pre 1700s not covered by a project.

Comments

They would probably be under one of the United Kingdom Project's sub-projects, Paula.

Even if no project currently exists, we should ask so we will know. Eventually someone may want to start a project for an area that is currently not covered.

Thus, some type of alert banner or pop-up (as you suggest) related to the creation or editing of a Pre-1700 profile would be more useful. We would be continually reminded of our collaboration obligations and have no excuse not to collaborate! 

 

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The England project covers anyone born in England pre 1700. Some people may also fit in to a EuroAristo sub-project, or Notables, but mostly the England project will be the one.

Answer 4

I like the idea of the form.  I like Debi and Lindy and others who have expressed that putting it out for more public access is the best way to go.  

Adding it to the pre-1700 quiz is not where most people would go to look for a link.  Sending communication to just some of the pre-certified 1700 or even 1500 folks would miss the wider group who may help or have info on a profile that is not covered by a project.   I think the wider issue is that sometimes the name forms are not what you'd expect in all places for this time period. So duplicates are easily created as one profile may have used the local version from the time period and not the later way someone might be known.  Case in point:  This person's surname form change over time.  

 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Striveling-5

Or the issue with the MacGregor family after their surname was by decree outlawed in the early 1600s.  

King James reiterated his order of February 24, 1603, and now as king of Scotland (as James VI) and England (as James VI), ordered, on or about April 3, 1603, that (with some adjustments to contemporize language):

''... the name of McGregor should be altogether abolished, and that (all) persons of that Clan should renounce their name and take same some other name, and that they nor none of their posterity should call themselves Gregor or McGregor thereafter under the pain of death."

from:  http://www.duhaime.org/LawMuseum/LawArticle-1593/1604-The-Abolition-of-the-Surname-Macgregor.aspx  

So how someone was born with a LNAB is not the same name they may have died with, yet are the same person.

My example could be sent to the Scotland Project but there are likely other examples where there is no project.  

Answer 5

Seems like a good addition, but people aren't using it properly.  I have only seen ONE of these forms with all the 'your answer here' blanks filled in.  So that's 90%-plus who are just posting the form to G2G without any additional information.

How can we help, if we don't know what they are talking about? Does the form need tweaking?