I need help with my grandfather Hans Renner Muller who was born in Hessen in Ocotober 31,1907

+2 votes
in WikiTree Help by
Do you know who he married and where he lived ,and any Census record

My father was born in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, in 1906, and was finally asked ( when he was four years old) to follow his 16-yr-old mother Anna Elisabeth Berg to Connecticut. His GM (my brave and steadfast great grandmother Rosalia Bar/Bear) had taken care of him until then, and she accompanied him, a wise and old woman, to her daughter. 

So in New Haven, probably, he was introduced to a woman, his birth mother Anna, whom he'd never met at an earlier age and missing the important first years with her. He could not have retained any memory of her during his formative years. Probably scary for him, having, as he must have had, a normal feeling of abandonment by "Mom".  I imagine those four years were probably very hard for her as his mother, disregarding her freedom as a teen. His grandmother Rosa Baer had reared him through those years until she returned him to his mother, so while she was a house servant in her later years (I believe into her late 70s - early 80s), she was also Caretaker of her grandchild Rudy.

I'm guessing that kind of uptake of responsiblities was a "natural" part of life for grandparents, and particularly for German grandmothers. Who else but a grandparent (Gmother) to pick up where their daughters left off?! And what a burden, despite that she had him to share her late years and days with.

What do you know about the social norms in this kind of situation in Baden or Europe in 1906-1911?

As a footnote, he never shared his story with me when he was an adult and I was a pre-teen and teen. It's only in recent years, when I'm an elder that I've discovered this part of his life. I do wish I'd known then!

Was Rosalie Baer born Nov 20 1846,What census in Connecticut shows them.Who was his mother Anna Berg married too.??

Wayne, good morning -- I'm near the West Coast. 

This information is on my ancestry.com and my wikitree, Hilse-40) but the date I have on WTree is

Rosalin [middle name?] (Rosa) "Rosalie, Rosalia" [uncertain] Bär formerly Schmid aka Herrmann

Born about 2 Sep 1837 [uncertain] in Schapbach, Ortenaukreis, Baden, Germany.

The uncertainty of it (see above) indicates as close as I can manage to the date I posted for the info below, and I'm sorry I haven't done more precise work. I attribute it to my impatience as I grow older and I'm definitely an elder person now--my last birthday was end of July. [in 2019, I'll be 80. --As a midwestern friend would say, "Lordy!"

With more information from you, perhaps I'd have some ideas for you. We are supposed to enable each other and I assume the info of mine above didn't help you a bit. For which I apologize.

West Coast Lady,Older,do not fret i am 82,also live on west coast of California.You being Jewish does not matter.I was from a very poor family

my neighborhood had Jewish,Blacks,Germans,Dutch, Irish.I did not know i

should hate anybody till abt 18.But it was not in me.   Any way your Hans

Renner Muller,have not found anything.Did find a Hans Helmuth Muller,

born Oct 31 1907,Hamburg germany.Being Jewish a Synagogue could

be holding his record.I need info on Anna Berg,And Rosalie in USA.
ANNA BERG, born about 1895-9 German immigrant to the USA in early 1907. Rosalie/a her GM is a Bar, also German born, a required traveler but returned to Germany for a short time before her death. No Jews on that line.

It was her unknown mate who was Jewish. So I've learned that I won't be able to find information for him. He was there and she was gone quickly after that.
Valentina Getsch. Is Getsch her maiden name,What last name did son

Walter use in USA. Is there a Census record that shows them in USA,

I am having trouble finding them anywhere.

Thanks, Wayne. someone else's "can't find it" note makes all of us who can't find it feel a little relieved.

But (I hope I'm not misreading your note above) your NOTE about VALENTINA GETSCH must be intended for someone else. I have no such person or surname anywhere in my family lines.

He Came to Nicaragua some time in 1935. And He married my grandma Mercedes Fernandez
He married in Nicaragua and there is where is die

2 Answers

+4 votes

You'd need a town, then for 1907 you as a direct descendent could apply for a birth certificate at the Standesamt. Alternatively you could contact the church for a baptismal record. But without a town you are looking for a needle in the haystack: the Großfürstentum Hessen had about 800,000 inhabitants and an area of 8,345 km2 or 3,222 square miles.

by Helmut Jungschaffer G2G6 Pilot (553k points)

Helmut (and Laura):  I thank you for that information. I'm assuming that the Standesamt for Frankfurt am Main is equally a needle/haystack situation for my father, birth name: Rudolf Berg (his mother was Anna Berg, 16 yrs old when he was born (perhaps 17) in that town).

I want to find out what relatives (of hers, an assumption) she stayed with in Frankfurt until her son's birth, January 12, 1907, I believe. She had lived with parents all her life, but the three family members (two parents and a brother, Wilhelm) had all died (I believe) by that date. Via her "start-in-life experiences with the unknown father of my father, she most likely developed a lifelong rejection of strong men.

My father was a sweet soul, but strong enough and independent enough to run away twice, once to Florida, and after they searched him out, he ran clear to California with "4 Russians" in an early Ford. Or so goes his story from his lips. Anna's daughter Val/Valeska (or -ca) did visit us in CA when I was in high school, so probably she and my dad took being siblings as a "like very much" situation for them. I only wish I had known enough (AND was SMART enough in a practical sense) to ask Val and her dau Melinda some deep history questions. No genealogy web sites were available to the common man then.

Anna kept secrets naturally--being ostracized was not for her, and so she fled to the US. But I'll never be able to forgive her completely for not bringing my father to the US (Connecticut) with her. Yes, she was only 16-17, but a relative in the US paid her passage and he missed his formative years with his birth mother. Perhaps, being very young, Anna was afraid of being a mother. 

Once in the US, he ran away--twice. The second time (cross country to CA) worked, so he never saw Anna again. 

Once, because as a child about 9 yrs old, I asked several times for one, we had a brief phone conversation with Anna in which my father handed me the phone after a literal minute-max-two. It's helpful to remember that in the 1940s, using the long distance phone from CA to CT was a quite rare and uncomfortable experience for "ordinary people", and between them that was very certain. I did get to hear Anna's voice, then with a fairly strong accent which I found a little scary. (Grandmother, I'm very sorry.)

The Standesamt in Frankfurt could be reached by email:

I'll try the given address tomorrow, and then, later in the day.

Thanks so much.
+1 vote
Hans is Dutch for German Johan or Johannes  French version is Jean.

I would check under each of these.

https://books.google.com/books?id=UxRPAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=%22Hans+Renner+Muller%22&source=bl&ots=GHLwilpY1u&sig=vU4mRePuQ9byqegYmtmuVyZ4z5s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrpOel2oDbAhVSXK0KHRPoBVoQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=Muller&f=false   see page 8  perhaps someone can translate this...
by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (713k points)
Hi Laura,

Thank you so much for the info.

Actually my grandfather was born in Essen in 1907 His mother was Rosalie and father Thomas Renner

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