The Rimbaults

+6 votes
132 views
Hi, guys.

I'm adding people from this branch to my main tree and I am a little confused about something. Here's the branch: https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Cyr-Family-Tree-437

Do you see the two Anne Marie Unknowns and two Rene Rimbaults? Are they the same person? I asked for a merge but it was rejected. Just want a little clarification because this branch is a little confusing. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
WikiTree profile: Marguerite Rimbault
asked in Genealogy Help by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (143k points)
retagged by Chris Ferraiolo
Please tag this question with French roots tag, there are a lot of unsourced people there, all in France.  Looks like some attention needs to be focused on our Acadian cousins' origins also.
And done. Thanks, Dani!
ok, add Acadian project to your tags, this is an obvious messed up family.
Very messed up. Can't seem to find them in the usual spots.

4 Answers

+5 votes
Yes, I see two of each.  Marie and Rene are the same people, but they are meant to be in there twice. They don't need to be merged.

Rene and Marie had two daughters: Marguerite and Francoise, who both figure in this pedigree.  So Rene/Marie are in there twice, because there are two daughters. If only one of the daughters figured in this pedigree, they would only be in there once.

Make sense?
answered by Ros Haywood G2G6 Pilot (417k points)
Right. That makes sense. =) Problem is that the ids of the parents are different. There's Rimbault-7 and Rimbault-27 for them. That's who I was trying to merge. =) The mothers have the same ID number. The fathers don't for some reason. Shouldn't they have the same number?
so they have to be merged, so the sisters can show up as being sisters rather than disconnected.  It's supposed to be one big family tree, not little individual trees.  Imagine if I had followed that logic when I entered one of my ancestors who had 15 kids?
Now that would be a mess. The merge was rejected initially. I was like "Wait a second...." So that's why I brought it here.
Merges keep getting rejected.
Chris, while I would not use Nos Origines as a source, I think the profile for Marguerite Raimbault's son, Louis Cyr, is a good starting point:

http://www.nosorigines.qc.ca/GenealogieQuebec.aspx?genealogie=Cyr_Louis&pid=40601

I think the two Renés are the same person and should be merged, once the second René is cleaned up (there is not a whiff of a source for the data on the profile), but they are not related to our Marguerite Raimbault.
Right. I wouldn't use that site as a source either. I usually use it as a placeholder source until something better comes along. And as far as I can tell Nos Origines just has the names Jean Sire and Marguerite Raimbault.

Nothing else. Hmm...
Yes, that is what is worrying me. Nos Origines works a bit like a data aggregator... It would tend to have too much information (more than is verified, that is) than too little.

I have ancestors in Dunkerque and off the top of my head the archives don't go back very early. This will need checking.
And sometimes it has bare bones info. Like just a birth date. Sometimes they source PDRH. Sometimes they don't. It's weird.
As a note, Nos Origines is similar to Wikitree in how it functions, numerous contributors.  Some give their sources, some don't.  So it's basically another family tree site like Ancestry or Geni etc.  Sometimes useful to get a clue where to look, sometimes not.  I note it as a repository after sources section.
Same.  E-mail has been sent to Jacqueline Giruard. Hope she can help with this mess.
Sorry but I am unavailable for the most part until into June. It does look like there are several very capable genealogists who are working on the family tree.
I think the Rootsweb link you gave me cleared up the problems. The trick is to finding out who MM was. If she even existed.....*Plays X-Files music*
+3 votes
Bumping this thread as I need help. The merges keep getting rejected even though it's obvious that the two people who need to be merged are the same person. Seriously. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rimbault-27 and https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rimbault-7 are BOTH married to https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Unknown-182545 Ergo the two would have to be merged.

Can someone please help me figure this out?

To make things even weirder, the two people are shown in the tree view as married but not shown in the profile.
answered by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (143k points)
edited by Chris Ferraiolo

I started to add Rimbault-27 as a spouse of Anne Marie but realized I wasn't helping matters. I understand the concern that Marguerite Madeleine in France does not seem to fit with the rest of the family. If she was born and died in France, she is probably not the daughter of Anne Marie who is believed by some to be métisse, right?

Right. But, even then I can't seem to find anything to support or disprove the claims. I dunno where the original tree maker got the info from. It seems to be from a gedcom.

I've checked Geni and they do not have any parents for Marguerite Rambault. Just the parents of Francoise Rambault who are these two:

https://www.geni.com/people/Ren%C3%A9-Jean-Rimbault/6000000004279895243 and https://www.geni.com/people/Marie-Anne-Rimbault/6000000002316446037

And even there he seems to be married to the same woman twice. But, again the parents of Marguerite are not known.

I saw this when I was putting everyone in on my main tree. I like to compare and see what each site has for the people before I add them in. And the sources. I try to have as correct info as possible. The problem is that this tree is really messed up and I'm not sure what to do with it. Geni even cites her birth as in Hollande. So....

Just a wee bit confusing.
+6 votes
Sorry this isn't my area of expertise but there are some big discrepancies between these two profiles.  Particularly related to the daughter Marguerite Madeleine Rimbault.

She is born in 1650 in France when her supposed parents were married in 1655 in Arcadie, and she also appears to have married in France and died there.  Maybe if her dates and parentage are clarified it might help to then work out if the two Rene Rimbaults are indeed intended to be the same.
answered by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (291k points)
That's okay. Any bit of help is good. I'm trying to figure this mess out myself.. I mean look. There are three Madeleine Rimbaults to check out. I don't know where to start for sources unless I check Fichier and  Nos origines.

This tree is a mess. The family isn't in Fichier.
Well Chris, thanks for bravely trying to tackle this. It might look like it is in my area of expertise, but it is exactly the kind of family that makes me want to run away as fast and as far as possible. If I were the only person managing the profiles, I would disregard anything that is unsourced, take the ancestor with reliable and confirmed information as a starting point and take it from there.

To put it simply, how do we even know that Marguerite Madeleine's father was René? We don't. It is entirely possible that MM was artificially grafted to René in an attempt to add a pinch of Native American spice to her descendants. It would not be the first time this happens.

So - who is Marguerite Madeleine Rimbault?
That's the 20,000 dollar question. Who knows who that lady was? Did she even really exist? Was she made up to give someone a link to some Native Americans? Was she secretly a French spy? (Sorry. 7 AM. Mind wanders.)

I thought I would tackle this because it's part of the big tree and I don't like messes.  I added the branch as it is now and avoiding this lady's parents because it was confusing.

The problem is that we can't find any reliable source on her. I can't find her in Fichier as that's for Quebec. I have no idea if there's an Acadian version. Either way, MM was disconnected. This tree makes no sense.

As far as I can find... the best is look for the baptism of Louis in the Dunkerque registers around 1685. It looks like no one has even tried to look for Louis Sire/Cyr's actual baptism record yet. If the information on him is correct, his baptism record should be somewhere here... The records are in Latin by the way.

Sadly my Latin is lacking. Hopefully someone with better skills in Latin would help.

Here's hoping someone finds something.
And there are 1221 pages to browse in this register. Kind of daunting.
Wow.....
+6 votes
These look like two different Rene Rimbaults to me, and should NOT be merged. According to Stephen White's DGFA, p.1397-1398, Rene Rimbault-7 and Anne-Marie Unknown-182545 are the parents for this family, but there should only be 7 children, not 10. Children Anne, Rene, and Madeleine/Magdelaine are duplicated and a decision needs to be made to either disconnect the extras or merge them...probably merge but I haven't looked at them closely enough to say for sure.

Rene Rimbault-27 appears to be a completely different person. Neither he nor his daughter Marguerite Madeleine Rimbault-26 appear to have ever been Acadians. Looks to me like a case of mistaken identity. She should be disconnected from Anne-Marie Unknown-182545 and left without a mother until someone else comes along with time to work on the family.

I can provide info from White's DGFA if needed to help clean up this family.
answered by Joyce Rivette G2G6 Mach 2 (21.5k points)
By all means, Joyce. Have at it. This tree confuses me a wee bit too much. Haha. It should be noted that one of the ladies has no parents on geni. This is where things got a little confusing. Any help would be great.
I removed the mother for now. So now there are nine kids. That just makes me wonder who this other lady was. Side note. Do we know who Francois Michel's parents were?
According to White's DGFA, no parents are known for Francois Michel.
That's what I thought. Thanks!
Thank you Joyce for helping out. As you know, I am travelling until into June and can't do much but cheer on the sidelines.

I created a new G2G question to focus on corrections to the profile of the Acadian, Rene Rimbault-7. Please see this G2G thread: The Rimbaults (Acadians).

Thanks, Joyce. Hope we get some answers. For now this lady is blank on my main tree.
Chris, as promised, I've added info and sources to the profiles of Rene Rimbault-7 as well as his children. This is about as far as I can go for now. Hope this helps, and good luck with your other Rene's family!
Thanks. I think that's fine and I thank you for your help. =D That family is messed up and any help is appreciated.

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