Vincent Goodwin (1385-1433) parents have no credible documentation?

Question

Sources Listed in WikiTree for Vincent Goodwin’s parents:

1. http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p367.htm#i11022 

2. http://trees.ancestry.ca/tree/47321355/person/6832456804 3. http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jweber&id=I24825 

With reference to the Sources listed here. With the exception of the Ancestry Tree reference, none mention Vincent Goodwin being a child of Thomas Roche, and the Ancestry Tree reference contains no reference to any document, or copy of same, that validates Thomas Roche is Vincent Goodwin's father. The Ancestry files itself only references other Ancestry files, none of which provide any evidence of Vincent's lineage. Indeed the other references in the Sources contained on this page do not mention a Vincent Goodwin at all although it does list other children of Thomas Roche. Thus the listing of Vincent Goodwin's parents as Thomas Roche and Elizabeth Birmingham does not appear to be supported by any demonstrable documented facts.  Anyone have a good source?

Comments

I cleaned a little bit of it up yesterday, but I should remark that whereever it came from, the person who compiled the data literally didn't understand the difference between a will register reference and a personal name. IMO, the original database entry that this was extracted from was pasted together by someone who didn't have the slightest idea what they were doing.

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My vote would be to detach all the relationships and just leave the core profile that represents the Vincent Goodwin in the will.

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''Fifty Great Migration Colonists to New England & Their Origins'' does mention this will, but all it says is that Vincent is the earliest known Goodwyn living in Blofield and was "probably" the ancestor of the later ones (p. 239). It doesn't appear to attempt to postulate direct relationships with these later Goodwyns.

Answer 1

Parents should be detached but son should stay intact until the line has been worked on starting with John Goodwin the Elder of Blofeild,Norfolk,England. I'll let you know when I'm done with that.

Vincent's son was William not john but the line seems too have some sort of connection. So it needs further research first.

Comments

Usually, if I know they're related but I don't know how, I just mention it in the profile with a wikilink, like "[[Goodwin-769|Vincent Goodwin]] of Blofield (d. 1433) appears to be related, but the exact relationship is unclear." At the very least, it needs to be marked "uncertain". Realistically, given the historical context, there probably isn't sufficient evidence to prove the relationship.

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Here is a starting point too that shares a chain of information up too John Goodwyn the Elder in Blofeild,Norfolk,England. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Goodwin-70

But just too answer your overall concern of Thomas De La Roche being vicent Goddwyn's father. "It is completely unprovable and there is no connection other than wishful thinking" that connection is completely random. But the geneology leading up too John Goodwin Elder of Blofeild,Norfolk,England there is a proven connection too that. XD

It ccontinues on too speculate connection argumentation too his father William. And that's where the documentation needs further research here on wikitree. XD

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That's the normal situation in England. Back to the mid 1500s, it's frequently workable, but the documentation runs out before that. There were two legal events that made English genealogy possible, the Statute of Wills in 1540 and Henry VIII's parish registration injunction of 1538. Before that, only the land holding gentry are traceable, and even then it's pretty hit and miss. In general, if a pre-1540 genealogy exists, it's probably in a herald's visitation and it's easy to find. If I can't  google a source for it, I get pretty suspicious.

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Agreed too that. Sometimes you got to dig a bit for the documentation. But it should be able too be found within a reasonable amount of time. And yeah you got too get lucky too hit a surety barons genealogy line so it's rare too be able too trace back too too midevil times.

Answer 2

Hey "Robert Duncan",can you please add these tags too your g2g post here with these?:

England,g2g,profiles,sources,Genealogy.

If you do thank you very much,it will help this feed get way more views and possibly more input XD

Comments

Thamk you "Robert Duncan" for retagging this feed. XD

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Troy-  Any additional information on Vincent Godwyn/Goodwin's  parents and children.  Seems it still reflects de La Roche as his father which I believe we found unsubstantiated.

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The two Roche girls were co-heiresses, so they didn't have a legitimate brother.  See eg IPM 340

http://www.inquisitionspostmortem.ac.uk/view/inquisition/22-333/340

Evidently they were said to be 26 and 24 in 1423 and their parents were dead by then.

The IPMs were occasioned by the death of this lady

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Plaunche-1

widow of many, including John de Bermingham, son and heir of Fulk and elder brother of Thomas.  Opinions seem to differ on the order in which she dispatched her husbands.

Descent of Kingston Bagpuize

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/berks/vol4/pp349-353#fnn70